How large should you're average dungeon be?
- Thread starter Imaro
- Start date
Gilladian
Adventurer
In 4e, I'm always the player; we play online. We rarely get more than 2 rooms done in a 3 hour session. This tremendously affects how much dungoen I can tolerate without a break.
We're in a dungeon right now, and we've done about 12 rooms, but we've had 3 big RP scenes interspersed with them, which has really helped break them down.
I answered 1-4, but I really mean 1-4 rooms without some sort of other encounter mixed in, not 1-4 rooms before leaving the dungeon.
In other games (3.5e), not played online, where I'm the DM almost always, I'd say 12-15 rooms maximum is a good dungeon.
We're in a dungeon right now, and we've done about 12 rooms, but we've had 3 big RP scenes interspersed with them, which has really helped break them down.
I answered 1-4, but I really mean 1-4 rooms without some sort of other encounter mixed in, not 1-4 rooms before leaving the dungeon.
In other games (3.5e), not played online, where I'm the DM almost always, I'd say 12-15 rooms maximum is a good dungeon.
Shemeska
Adventurer
A dungeon's length should be appropriate for what the dungeon functionally is: a ruined castle dungeon, an ancient abandoned tower, a dragon's cavern, a buried dwarven city, an abandoned metropolis haunted by fiends still bound to its soil long after plague killed their original masters, etc.
As long as the players know what they're getting into, and the layout is functional and rational (unless for certain planar locations it's intentionally non-rational), I find that you can avoid the grind of "oh, joy, another 10x10 room with monsters or a trap." or "we go to the room that we haven't been to yet *yawn*".
I get insanely bored of sterotypical, combat-happy dungeon crawls after two or more cliche dungeon rooms. Bores me to the tears. I need something more interesting, more flavor that makes me think about the place's layout, its history, who lives or lived there, etc.
Some of my favorite "dungeons" were anything but: a once splended but now slowly crumbling Angkor Wat style palace of a rakshasa in Carceri's second layer of Cathrys the Scarlet Jungle; the ruins of Citadel Civitius left behind on Quasielemental Ash after Vecna was imprisoned within Ravenloft, and the ethereal Maze that the Lady of Pain imprisoned the entire Incanterium Faction within (and as powerful mages who devoured magic to live, in the centuries that passed, their prison which was their tower headquarters and a dozen square blocks of replicated Sigil was turned into a burned out shell of a warzone inhabited by spellhaunts, and a cold, eerie silence).
As long as the players know what they're getting into, and the layout is functional and rational (unless for certain planar locations it's intentionally non-rational), I find that you can avoid the grind of "oh, joy, another 10x10 room with monsters or a trap." or "we go to the room that we haven't been to yet *yawn*".
I get insanely bored of sterotypical, combat-happy dungeon crawls after two or more cliche dungeon rooms. Bores me to the tears. I need something more interesting, more flavor that makes me think about the place's layout, its history, who lives or lived there, etc.
Some of my favorite "dungeons" were anything but: a once splended but now slowly crumbling Angkor Wat style palace of a rakshasa in Carceri's second layer of Cathrys the Scarlet Jungle; the ruins of Citadel Civitius left behind on Quasielemental Ash after Vecna was imprisoned within Ravenloft, and the ethereal Maze that the Lady of Pain imprisoned the entire Incanterium Faction within (and as powerful mages who devoured magic to live, in the centuries that passed, their prison which was their tower headquarters and a dozen square blocks of replicated Sigil was turned into a burned out shell of a warzone inhabited by spellhaunts, and a cold, eerie silence).
Holy Bovine
First Post
8-12 is my vote. I've made dungeons longer and shorted but this is my 'sweet spot'. Note that this would 8-12 encounters not necessarily rooms themselves. There are always empty rooms for the Pcs to explore/barricade for a rest stop.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
I think the question is not "how many rooms" but "how many encounters" and "how many sessions". And also: "How many story events". The Keep on the Shadowfell suffers from the fact that there is only one story goal - stop Kalarel - but a lot of encounters till you get there. If there were more subgoals/subplots going on there, its size and number of encounters would be less problematic.
If you want a large dungeon with lots of encounters ensure that there are many story goals to be had there. Multiple factions you need to deal with, different things you want out of it. Possibly leaving it occassionally to follow a different plot, and returning when a new issue arises inside the dungeon.
If you want a large dungeon with lots of encounters ensure that there are many story goals to be had there. Multiple factions you need to deal with, different things you want out of it. Possibly leaving it occassionally to follow a different plot, and returning when a new issue arises inside the dungeon.
TheNovaLord
First Post
12 room max
2-4 unavoidable fights
1 trap
1 totally social
1-2 'avoidable fights'
1 mystery
2-3 non 'peril' rooms
marvellous
2-4 unavoidable fights
1 trap
1 totally social
1-2 'avoidable fights'
1 mystery
2-3 non 'peril' rooms
marvellous
delericho
Legend
It depends.
I would recommend that the average dungeon be designed to be completed in one session, so it would depend on how long your session is and how quickly you get through encounters. There's also a difference between number of rooms in the dungeon, number of encounters in the dungeon, and how many encounters are actually required to complete the dungeon.
For my group (3.x), we typically play for between five and seven hours, and can generally get through about five combats (plus a couple of roleplay encounters) in that time. So, I would typically build a dungeon with maybe a dozen rooms, up to eight (combat) encounters, but with two or three paths through the dungeon each taking in a subset of 5-6 of those encounters.
Obviously, if the players decide to 'clear out' the dungeon, it will take them more than a session. And, of course, I sometimes use shorter and longer dungeons (variety being the spice of life, and all that), but in general, I find that this arrangement works pretty well.
(It's perhaps also worth noting that we don't get together as often as I would like, and tend to be somewhat erratic in our scheduling. As such, I've found it a good idea to end each session at a home base, rather than in the middle of a dungeon. If we managed to play every week, I would be more comfortable using bigger dungeons. Even then, I don't think I would want to run the same dungeon for more than 2-3 sessions, though.)
I would recommend that the average dungeon be designed to be completed in one session, so it would depend on how long your session is and how quickly you get through encounters. There's also a difference between number of rooms in the dungeon, number of encounters in the dungeon, and how many encounters are actually required to complete the dungeon.
For my group (3.x), we typically play for between five and seven hours, and can generally get through about five combats (plus a couple of roleplay encounters) in that time. So, I would typically build a dungeon with maybe a dozen rooms, up to eight (combat) encounters, but with two or three paths through the dungeon each taking in a subset of 5-6 of those encounters.
Obviously, if the players decide to 'clear out' the dungeon, it will take them more than a session. And, of course, I sometimes use shorter and longer dungeons (variety being the spice of life, and all that), but in general, I find that this arrangement works pretty well.
(It's perhaps also worth noting that we don't get together as often as I would like, and tend to be somewhat erratic in our scheduling. As such, I've found it a good idea to end each session at a home base, rather than in the middle of a dungeon. If we managed to play every week, I would be more comfortable using bigger dungeons. Even then, I don't think I would want to run the same dungeon for more than 2-3 sessions, though.)
