D&D 5E how many 5e supporters are upset about the possible $50 price tag

[n00bdragon]

I'd just like to point that I was right now shopping amazon.com for some books that I'll need for my academic research, and I found that a 506-page hardcover text-only book sells for $200 (fortunately, there's $50 paperback version). Other books I also need are selling for about $120-$130 each in their hardcover versions.

I got two conclusions from that: first, they should try selling paperback versions of the core rulebooks. Second, $50 for a full-color hardcover of 300 pages seems to be dirty cheap if you're selling for a niche market.

Now I see why some accomplished RPG designers create games on their free time instead of doing it as a job, and not even WotC manages to make enough money to call this a chief business.

Were you looking at a textbook? Textbooks are hilariously overpriced thanks to an the absolutely wacko excuse for a "market" that is higher education. Note that none of the Harry Potter books run over $20 in hardcover despite running WELL over 500 pages for the later ones, though admittedly they aren't rpg standard 8.5x11 page size like a D&D book but you get the idea. For a large print run book $30 is probably about right to cover costs and still make a decent profit. Smaller print run books, indie RPGs and the like, tend to retail for $50 because of their higher production costs per unit. A $50 tag on D&D books tells me they are seriously cutting down the size of the production run compared to previous editions. I don't predict a shortage or anything. They just know they won't sell as much as they were before.

Also I absolutely disagree with making more paperback RPG books. The Essentials line did this and the result was awful IMO. RPG books are reference materials. That means you want to spread them open wide and often and there's a certain roughness they have to withstand, being shoved in backpacks, etc. I only bought the Monster Vault and never dared to open it up during a game. Every other book I saw belonging to other people got absolutely destroyed within a few months. Paperbacks are fine for dimestore novels and general disposable reading, but not for serious reference materials you plan to use hard and frequently.

 

[frogimus]

Ah, but with paperbacks you can pop that weak glue apart and either go with a comb binding or 3-hole punch the pages and put in a binder. Comb binding lays flat quite nicely.

 

[ren1999]

No paperbacks. The books are so often used that the cover falls off. I want 1st Edition AD&D Player's Handbook quality. And about the same number of pages and format.

kira3696.tripod.com
auto-resolving combat version

 

[Argyle King]

Were you looking at a textbook? Textbooks are hilariously overpriced thanks to an the absolutely wacko excuse for a "market" that is higher education. Note that none of the Harry Potter books run over $20 in hardcover despite running WELL over 500 pages for the later ones, though admittedly they aren't rpg standard 8.5x11 page size like a D&D book but you get the idea. For a large print run book $30 is probably about right to cover costs and still make a decent profit. Smaller print run books, indie RPGs and the like, tend to retail for $50 because of their higher production costs per unit. A $50 tag on D&D books tells me they are seriously cutting down the size of the production run compared to previous editions. I don't predict a shortage or anything. They just know they won't sell as much as they were before.

Also I absolutely disagree with making more paperback RPG books. The Essentials line did this and the result was awful IMO. RPG books are reference materials. That means you want to spread them open wide and often and there's a certain roughness they have to withstand, being shoved in backpacks, etc. I only bought the Monster Vault and never dared to open it up during a game. Every other book I saw belonging to other people got absolutely destroyed within a few months. Paperbacks are fine for dimestore novels and general disposable reading, but not for serious reference materials you plan to use hard and frequently.

I think some of the books should be available in paperback. I have a paperback copy of the 3.5 Player's Handbook, and I love it. It's surprisingly sturdy (for a paperback) too.

That being said, I do agree that some of the 4E books had a penchant for falling apart. The two books which I had the most problem with were the Adventurer's Vault (pages started falling out a few days after purchase,) and the first DMG1 I bought (some severe smudging issues.)

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

Were you looking at a textbook? Textbooks are hilariously overpriced thanks to an the absolutely wacko excuse for a "market" that is higher education. Note that none of the Harry Potter books run over $20 in hardcover despite running WELL over 500 pages for the later ones, though admittedly they aren't rpg standard 8.5x11 page size like a D&D book but you get the idea. For a large print run book $30 is probably about right to cover costs and still make a decent profit. Smaller print run books, indie RPGs and the like, tend to retail for $50 because of their higher production costs per unit. A $50 tag on D&D books tells me they are seriously cutting down the size of the production run compared to previous editions. I don't predict a shortage or anything. They just know they won't sell as much as they were before.

Maybe we should just recognize that the size of our market is more akin to the market of academic textbooks, not Harry Potter. What I wanted to point with my post is that RPG books are very cheap when compared to a different niche market that I also get the chance to analyze, and their quality is miles above (I don't have richly illustrated full color textbooks). While I know there's no perfect comparison, comparing with a mass market bestseller is absurd.

To me, the moment we see some very accomplished game designers recognizing that they must have dayjobs, otherwise they won't be able to pay their expenses, it's the moment to realize that we're certainly not paying enough. Another possibility would be to recognize that their product is not good enough to the market they want to reach, but I don't think this is the case.

I cannot analyze that as a US issue because I don't live there, but I see the same pattern in Brazil, of people saying RPG books are expensive when, in reality, they are cheaper than other books made for niche markets, books that actually fail to reach the same quality standards we came to expect in RPG books. In fact, Brazilian case is worse, because academic textbooks here actually sell more than RPGs...

In short, the next time you ask yourself why your favorite RPG line was discontinued, why your favorite designer is now doing video-games, why the White Wolf guys are almost in kickstarter-mode or why WotC resells core rulebooks every four years, consider the fact that maybe you're not paying enough for the content you get.

Cheers!

 

[delericho]

To me, the moment we see some very accomplished game designers recognizing that they must have dayjobs, otherwise they won't be able to pay their expenses, it's the moment to realize that we're certainly not paying enough.

It's not that we're not paying enough, it's that the market just isn't big enough to sustain full-time employment for all but a very few. That sucks, but it's the reality we now live with.

And it's not just RPGs - for just about any creative endeavour you care to name you'll find a very few who can do it full-time and make a living (sometimes an extremely good living), and a much larger number of people who would love to do it but just can't.

 

[frogimus]

And the internet further divides the small gaming pie by delivering everything, whether a good idea or a complete pile of fecal matter. When game designers had to go through a publisher, their game was at least vetted and edited before release. Now with Lulu, Kickstarter, and IndieGoGo all you need to do is make it sound good. If my hobby budget is $50/month and $35 just went to some snake oil salesman on KS, the good game designer suffers from a potential loss in sales.

 

[delericho]

When game designers had to go through a publisher, their game was at least vetted and edited before release. Now with Lulu, Kickstarter, and IndieGoGo all you need to do is make it sound good.

True, but on the other hand those avenues mean that someone with a good idea but without industry contacts now at least has the opportunity to get his work out there. On balance, things like Kickstarter may be mixed blessings, but they are nonetheless blessings, IMO.