How many changes before it goes from D&D to "d20 Generic Fantasy"

[Thurbane]

I'm just curious, what exactly would it take for D&D to stop being D&D to you?

Is it in the fluff? So long as the recognisable races and classes are there, will it always be D&D no matter the mechanics?

Is it in the crunch? Do Saving Throws and Armor Class have to remain to make it D&D?

I'm sure there is a point when it ceases being D&D - some people maintain this already happened with 3E. Heck, some people say the same thing about 2E or even AD&D 1E.

Just looking for some baselines here...

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

I think that'd require another publisher, since I doubt WotC would stop using the highly recognizable D&D brand name for as long as they have the license.


For a slightly less cheeky response, so long as it's fantasy, I'm rolling a d20, and there might be an illithid and a bag of holding out there, I'm playing D&D on my end.

 

[FireLance]

It certainly isn't the fluff - I could be playing with shifters and raptorans instead of dwarves and elves, or warblades and binders instead of fighters and wizards, and it would still be D&D to me.

It isn't the crunch, because anything that removed itself far enough mechanically that I wouldn't call it D&D, I wouldn't call it "generic d20 fantasy", either.

In all seriousness, I think the only criteria for me is: it's got the D&D logo on it.

 

[Someone]

People killing themselves with the first Fireball they cast cast after reaching 5th level.
If you're a thief you suck.

It it lacks those 2 things it's not D&D.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Classes must remain. They are the most 'D&Dy' element of D&D. I regard them as almost entirely crunch, not fluff. The game world doesn't realise that Tordek is a fighter, not a warrior.

 

[Aloïsius]

classes, races, level define your character.

This is what makes D&D backward compatible. When you are reading an 2e module, just ignore the statblock and use "dwarven fighter 12". It will translate in 3e or 4e without trouble.

Oh, sure, some classes changes or disappear. if there is no monk in 4e, you can always say that "half-orc monk 8" is "hal-orc fighter 8" and select the right talent tree.

The 20-30 levels are epic, so you don't have to translate the level : 8 is still 8, period.

 

[dmccoy1693]

In all seriousness, I think the only criteria for me is: it's got the D&D logo on it.

QFT

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm just curious, what exactly would it take for D&D to stop being D&D to you?

Is it in the fluff? So long as the recognisable races and classes are there, will it always be D&D no matter the mechanics?

Is it in the crunch? Do Saving Throws and Armor Class have to remain to make it D&D?

I'm sure there is a point when it ceases being D&D - some people maintain this already happened with 3E. Heck, some people say the same thing about 2E or even AD&D 1E.

Just looking for some baselines here...

Classes
Races
Levels and XP
Attack rolls vs AC
Turns in initiative order
Saving throws
Hit points
Ability scores that are (at least in the basic rule) rolled from 3 to 18
Spells defined individually one by one
Spell slots per day
Spell levels
Spell preparation (at least for some classes)

Plus a bunch of specific iconic classes, iconic monsters, iconic spells, and iconic magic items.

 

[Shade]

The mechanics are much less about D&D than the flavor, IMO.

Take away the Great Wheel, the canonical monsters, spells, magic items, and locales, and it's no longer D&D to me.

 

[Gentlegamer]

I once posed a hypothetical where Steve Jackson Games acquired the IP for D&D and released the "new Dungeons & Dragons game" with the trademark on the cover, but the rules were identical to GURPS. Several posters said that this game would still be D&D.

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In my opinion, we have been at "d20 Fantasy" since the advent of "3e." 3.5 was d20 Fantasy, 2nd Edition.