D&D (2024) How many classes do you want to see this edition?

[Mephista]

The Sorcerer and the Warlock are only similar thematically and mechanically because the designers of certain "gaming generations" who don't explore theme differences much or are swayed heavily by those of those groups.

The sorcerer and warlock are similar thematically and mechanically because they've always been so. In 3e, they were both alternative wizards with innate, inherited magic. In 4e, they were both Arcane strikers. In 5e, well, people say that the Venn Diagram of Patrons and Origins is a circle for a good reason.

In each edition, sorcerer has struggled to find its niche, while warlock has basically eaten a few other classes into itself to make its own niche.

The fact that the Sorcerer has few exclusive spells points that D&D designers since the Sorcerer's creation in 3e, don't get the Sorcerer, and wont try hard to get it unless forced (ie 4e PHB, experimental DNDN playtest).

Wait, wait wait. Are you saying that the designers of the 3e sorcerer don't get their own creation? The "lets try messing with Vancian casting and see if it breaks the game" class? Maybe you care to enlighten us on how you understand the sorcerer more than the people that made the class?

 

[tetrasodium]

From memory, they came up with a bunch of sorcerer only feats that explored their bloodline, some of which gained more power the more feats you had (like a draconic feat might grant you additional hit points for each draconic feat you chose. I remember there being dragon and fey bloodline feats, I wouldn't be surprised if there were most of the planar races with celestial and fiendish feats that could be chosen instead. I'd have to hunt down the 3e books to confirm though.

This pushed me to look them up since it was more than I remembered about them

Spoiler: draconic feats from complete arcane

• Draconic breath: Burn spell slots for a breath weapon that deals 2d6 per level of the slot
• Draconic Claw:small d4/med d6/lg d8 claw attack & can use as a swift action in any round you cast a spell.
• Draconic Flight: fly speed of 10ft* slot level for 1 round when you cast a spell
• Draconic Heritage: Gain a class skill & some bonuses to certain saves that depend on the number of draconic feats you have
• Draconic Legacy: Needs 4 draconic feats but adds 3 spells to spells known
• Draconic power: +1 caster level & add +1 to the dc of spells with a given energy type
• Draconic presence: wjen you cast a spell opponents with fewer HD than you make a will save or are shaken
• Draconic resistance: Get resistance to the linked energy type = to num draconic feats
• Draconic skin: +1 natural armor (this stacked with armor)

I don't know what book might have had the other flavors you mention but they definitely provided some pretty cool options for a sorcerer that carved out a new niche. The breath weapon might sound iffy but 3.x was also the edition where there were monster feats players could qualify for if they managed to get things like that so it was probably a gateway to other feats on top of being plus one draconic feat to feats that count. (the flight maybe too). 3.x made a lot of interesting things sorcerer could snag.
edit: There were some pretty neat breath weapon feats Some flight ones too

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Mu.

This IS 5e, so the classes should be the same as 5e, by virtue of logic.

I mean adding classes doesn't make the game no longer backwards compatible.

Hell, even if a class is removed, you could still play the 2014 version in the system if the game really is as backwards compatible as they claim.

 

[Minigiant]

There were some efforts to explore it in 3.5 but 5e doesn't provide sorcerer the designspace. In 3.5 unearthed arcana (it was a book then not what it is now) there was a "Battle sorcerer" variant sorcerer

Spoiler: Battle Sorcerer variant had this...

• Hit Die:d4→d8
• Class Skills: Remove Bluff add intimidate
• Weapons & armor prof: simple weapons & no armor → any light or one handed martial weapon of the player's choice & light armor
• Spellcasting: Can cast in light armor with no chance of ASF but spell slots are reduced by one spell per day from each spell level(min zero)
  • At the time chain shirt was considered light armor

It made for a pretty decent sorcerer based gish that was even more different from the 3.5 wizard than the 3.5 sorcerer already was. IIRC there was also a bunch of draconic sorcerer PrC?+feats in complete arcane races of dragon or something too but I don't remember much about them.

Putting both casters on the same spontaneous casting wasn't the only change in 3.5→5e though, no longer getting int mod to skill points having skills combined & bounded accuracy making ok & untrained good enough in 5e also cut into what was a wizard strength at the time.

But that's kinda my point.
UA back then was about experimental new rules. So if they did UA for other classes, they would be forced to explore the sorcerer's theme (in comparison and contrast of the wizard and warlock). Sorcerer wasn't a priority in 3e. Soit wasn't really a shock it was pushed to PHB2 in 4e. And the 5e Sorcerer's 2014 publication state shows that either none of the top designers really loved the sorcerer, internally they used houserules they culdn't print, or they figured no one cared enough to call it out because "metamagic!".

The sorcerer and warlock are similar thematically and mechanically because they've always been so. In 3e, they were both alternative wizards with innate, inherited magic. In 4e, they were both Arcane strikers. In 5e, well, people say that the Venn Diagram of Patrons and Origins is a circle for a good reason.

In each edition, sorcerer has struggled to find its niche, while warlock has basically eaten a few other classes into itself to make its own niche.

And keep saying there is lore and setting differences between a patron candidate and a origin ancestor.

There is a reason why there isn't a Dragon Patron.
There is a reason why there isn't an Archfey Origin.

The sorcerer doesn't struggle to find a niche. The problem is both designers and fans ignore core sorcerer fluff. The little true lore it has.

Wait, wait wait. Are you saying that the designers of the 3e sorcerer don't get their own creation? The "lets try messing with Vancian casting and see if it breaks the game" class? Maybe you care to enlighten us on how you understand the sorcerer more than the people that made the class?

There was noticeable wizard snobbery and sorcerer hate with the fluff blurbs and amongst designers in 3e. And a lot of the 3,e content made specifically for sorcerer was late in the edition when WOTC typically is forced to create content to print books. There is even speculation that some designers didn't care for the class.

 

[cbwjm]

This pushed me to look them up since it was more than I remembered about them

Spoiler: draconic feats from complete arcane

• Draconic breath: Burn spell slots for a breath weapon that deals 2d6 per level of the slot
• Draconic Claw:small d4/med d6/lg d8 claw attack & can use as a swift action in any round you cast a spell.
• Draconic Flight: fly speed of 10ft* slot level for 1 round when you cast a spell
• Draconic Heritage: Gain a class skill & some bonuses to certain saves that depend on the number of draconic feats you have
• Draconic Legacy: Needs 4 draconic feats but adds 3 spells to spells known
• Draconic power: +1 caster level & add +1 to the dc of spells with a given energy type
• Draconic presence: wjen you cast a spell opponents with fewer HD than you make a will save or are shaken
• Draconic resistance: Get resistance to the linked energy type = to num draconic feats
• Draconic skin: +1 natural armor (this stacked with armor)

I don't know what book might have had the other flavors you mention but they definitely provided some pretty cool options for a sorcerer that carved out a new niche. The breath weapon might sound iffy but 3.x was also the edition where there were monster feats players could qualify for if they managed to get things like that so it was probably a gateway to other feats on top of being plus one draconic feat to feats that count. (the flight maybe too). 3.x made a lot of interesting things sorcerer could snag.
edit: There were some pretty neat breath weapon feats Some flight ones too

The others were in the complete mage (I had an inkling that was where they all were, but google confirmed). My guess is that the draconic ones were popular, or perhaps the designers just liked them, so they created a few others. If I went back to 3.5, I'd probably be inclined to let a sorcerer have bonus feats that they could choose from these trees.

 

[Minigiant]

The truth is I am fine with the "new class for different settings" if the settings actually came with new classes.

Swordmage- Forgotten Realms
Artificer- Eberron
Psion- Dark Sun
Warlord- Nentir Vale
Noble- Birthright
Chosen- Some New Dark Mythic setting
Invoker/Inquisitor- Some New Warrior Pantheon setting

 

[Frozen_Heart]

The truth is I am fine with the "new class for different settings" if the settings actually came with new classes.

Swordmage- Forgotten Realms
Artificer- Eberron
Psion- Dark Sun
Warlord- Nentir Vale
Noble- Birthright
Chosen- Some New Dark Mythic setting
Invoker/Inquisitor- Some New Warrior Pantheon setting

hopefully I can mention this without getting verbal abuse from people

Exandria - Blood Hunter

 

[Minigiant]

hopefully I can mention this without getting verbal abuse from people

Exandria - Blood Hunter

Dragonlance- Tinker

 

[Remathilis]

Ravenloft - Witch
Planescape - Factotum

 

[Horwath]

Ravenloft - Witch
Planescape - Factotum

couldn't Factotum be setting neutral.

Also it could be made with 45 Feats across 20 levels and "make your own class" class.