How many cohorts can a PC have and figuring out XP.

[irdeggman]

I haven't found the DMH errata that stated you can leadership more than once. Some help here would be appreciated.


Also the DMG does not state only 1 cohort it specifically states there is no limit to the number of cohorts and only specifies the level when attracted and max level.

If people have something that specifically states only 1 cohort I'd like to know about it since I haven't seen anything to contradict the the quote from the DMG I referenced earlier.

Realizing that the DM of course controls the number and what kind of cohorts a character can attract, so the DM can limit it to one cohort at a time without violating any rules. This is especially true since the DMG specifically gives the DM a warning about this feat and how its use can be overpowering and cause rifts between players.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually the 3.5 DMG errata specifically state Leadership can be taken multiple times.

No they don't...

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Also the DMG does not state only 1 cohort it specifically states there is no limit to the number of cohorts and only specifies the level when attracted and max level.

If people have something that specifically states only 1 cohort I'd like to know about it since I haven't seen anything to contradict the the quote from the DMG I referenced earlier.

For what it's worth, I believe that Monte Cook, who wrote the DMG, stated that it's supposed to be only 1 cohort, but that he allowed Leadership to be taken multiple times in his games.

Since there's nothing in the rule expressly allowing or denying more than one cohort, I tend to use Monte's stance, coupled with my own belief that 1 PC with an army of cohorts would ruin my game, to rule that only 1 cohort per PC is allowed, per Leadership feat taken. On top of that, each time Leadership is taken, it must be approved by me.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Regarding figuring out xp for a cohort... we don't bother in any of our games. We just peg the cohort at 2 levels below the leader. When the leader goes up a level the cohort does too. (the only people who have taken leadership have high CHA so they bump against the maximum level restriction. If someone with less CHA were to take it and they were limited to a cohort of lower level the same level difference would be maintained)

Cheers

 

[irdeggman]

For what it's worth, I believe that Monte Cook, who wrote the DMG, stated that it's supposed to be only 1 cohort, but that he allowed Leadership to be taken multiple times in his games.

Since there's nothing in the rule expressly allowing or denying more than one cohort, I tend to use Monte's stance, coupled with my own belief that 1 PC with an army of cohorts would ruin my game, to rule that only 1 cohort per PC is allowed, per Leadership feat taken. On top of that, each time Leadership is taken, it must be approved by me.

If anyone has any references to what Monte said I would be very interested. This is especially helpful since it was never addressed in Sage Advice or any other posting that I know of.

Also it does specifically state in the DMG (as I have quoted numerous times) that there is no limit to the number of cohorts a character can have. So stating that there is nothing in the rule specifically addressing this is actually false. Sorry, but that is how it reads.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also it does specifically state in the DMG (as I have quoted numerous times) that there is no limit to the number of cohorts a character can have.

Well, it says there's no limit to the number that can be employed.

So maybe any that don't result from the Leadership feat can negotiate for a salary in addition to their commission... plus overtime, sick leave, insurance, and a car...

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Also it does specifically state in the DMG (as I have quoted numerous times) that there is no limit to the number of cohorts a character can have. So stating that there is nothing in the rule specifically addressing this is actually false. Sorry, but that is how it reads.

No, that is how you choose to read it. As has already been explained in this thread, an alternate (and I believe correct) reading of the same text you've quoted is that the lack of a limit on cohorts refers to how many cohorts a PC might attract over his adventuring career, taking into account cohort deaths and dismissals. i.e. a PC might wind up having had seven cohorts over his career, four of which died and two of which were dismissed. Or any combination thereof.

A quote specifically validating your reading would have read "a PC may attract several cohorts at a time." Nowhere does it say this, leaving your position as speculative as any other. You believe "no limit on cohorts" means a PC can have several at once. Others (myself included) believe "no limit on cohorts" means a PC can have several over the length of his career, so that a cohort's death does not saddle the PC with a worthless feat slot.

It should also be pointed out that the table lists "Cohort" in the singular, and Followers in the plural, an odd usage if the feat was meant to allow a PC to attract an unlimited number of cohorts.

 

[irdeggman]

No, that is how you choose to read it. As has already been explained in this thread, an alternate (and I believe correct) reading of the same text you've quoted is that the lack of a limit on cohorts refers to how many cohorts a PC might attract over his adventuring career, taking into account cohort deaths and dismissals. i.e. a PC might wind up having had seven cohorts over his career, four of which died and two of which were dismissed. Or any combination thereof.

A quote specifically validating your reading would have read "a PC may attract several cohorts at a time." Nowhere does it say this, leaving your position as speculative as any other. You believe "no limit on cohorts" means a PC can have several at once. Others (myself included) believe "no limit on cohorts" means a PC can have several over the length of his career, so that a cohort's death does not saddle the PC with a worthless feat slot.

It should also be pointed out that the table lists "Cohort" in the singular, and Followers in the plural, an odd usage if the feat was meant to allow a PC to attract an unlimited number of cohorts.

I have to disagree.

The table lists cohort for max level to be attracted. No number because there is no limit so how would you list infinite? This is probably the same reason that no one has found anything that says the feat can be taken mutliple times. Basically it is not necessary since nothing is gained by doing it.

Much of the descriptive text is written in plural if that helps.

"Cohorts are loyal servants who follow a particular character or sometimes a group of characters." If it had meant singular it would have read "A cohort is. . ."

"They are hired by. . ." Again it would have read "He/she is hired by. . ."

And so on and so on. . .


Also as far as the 'employed' statement "They are hired by or seek out a PC or PCs, and they work out a deal agreeable to both parties so that the NPC works for thechracters." So they are always paid or otherwise compensated, depending on the agreement. It could just be tutalege (spelling). Hey it is another example of the plural use of cohorts.

Having gone on that tirade, I am not saying that limiting a character to only 1 cohort at a time is wrong. Game balance wise it can be very accurate. I'm only stating that the rules don't automatically limit a character to only 1 cohort. And the use of this feat is very DM intensive and controlling for game-balance play-balance reasons.

If you recall the 2nd ed equivalent (henchmen) there was a limit based on the character's charisma score. But this wasn't a limit of only 1 at a time (unless the charisma score made it so). This wasn't unbalanced in 2nd ed anymore than allowing multiple cohorts would be unbalanced in 3.5, as long as the DM manages things accordingly.

I am interested in something more concrete than IIRC Monte Cooke said something. . . So that I can revise my opinion here.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Much of the descriptive text is written in plural if that helps.

Much of the rules text is written in singular.

The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of a character’s Leadership score, he can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than himself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level. A character can try to attract a cohort of a particular race, class, and alignment. The cohort’s alignment may not be opposed to the leader’s alignment on either the law-vs-chaos or good-vs-evil axis, and the leader takes a Leadership penalty if he recruits a cohort of an alignment different from his own.

The cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party’s XP.
Divide the cohort’s level by the level of the PC with whom he or she is associated (the character with the Leadership feat who attracted the cohort).
Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to the PC and add that number of experience points to the cohort’s total.
If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than the associated PC’s character level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed attain the next level.

-Hyp.

 

[irdeggman]

Yes but Hyp the text in question (singular) is basically when a single character is used. For example when determining exp it is done one character at a time. IMO it also a safe assumption to assume that a character only attracts a single cohort at a time, that is a whole group doesn't show up at once - but this is a questionable application.