How Many Editions of D&D Has There Really Been?

[diaglo]

Too bad [MENTION=2885]diaglo[/MENTION] doesn't haunt these forums any more, he had a specific answer to this.

OD&D
AD&D
Holmes Basic D&D
Moldvay/Mentzer Basic/Expert/Companion/Masters/Immortals
AD&D 2nd
3e
4E


...So, D&D Next will be "8th Edition?" Is this right? If you count the Players' Options books from 2E, and 3.5e, and 4E Essentials, it would be "11th edition D&D?"

To confirm though, Holmes Basic was a definitely different beast from BECMI. It was more like a mix of BECMI and AD&D, when you dissect it. BECMI just made the distinction between D&D andn AD&D clearer.

Holmes by itself had 2 editions. 2edD&D and 3edD&D. it even says so inside any of the Holmes blue books which edition it is.

People are also discounting/disregarding/not including Hackmaster.

i have the newest mention/iteration at 12ed edit: but i don't count anything between 2007 until 2012.

 

[Umbran]

I don't know if I'd consider "revisions" as "editions" and I've always thought of the three BD&Ds (77, 79, and 83) as revisions/expansions of (O)D&D, with 1E being a new edition (2E as a revision of 1E

I agree. This is somewhat supported by the fact that while you can lay out the order of publishing by year, some of the earlier versions were contemporaneous, selling at the same time.

You essentially have two branches

OD&D, Holmes' Basic, B/X, BECMI...
(OD&D), AD&D, 2e, 3e, 4e...

And, if they do what they say, we might end up thinking of D&D Next as a merging of the two lines, in a sense.

 

[Kaodi]

And, if they do what they say, we might end up thinking of D&D Next as a merging of the two lines, in a sense.

Certainly I think that one good reason for figuring out how many editions there have really been is because you can hardly call D&D Next " one edition to unite them all " if you numbering scheme discounts the importance of some of the " all " .

 

[Umbran]

... because you can hardly call D&D Next " one edition to unite them all " if you numbering scheme discounts the importance of some of the " all " .

Why? Because the numbers in the name are the really important part?

Set aside, for the moment, the fact that WotC hasn't called it "5e". They have steadfastly refused to call it 5e. That's us calling it that.

Having set that aside, I think the proof is in the pudding. They can call it one edition to unite them all if the rules are written with significant effort to appeal to fans of all the games. The numbers are just so we can keep the things distinct when we talk about them. They aren't a Klingon bloodline, that will be dishonored if mispronounced, or something.

 

[Mark CMG]

The numbers are just so we can keep the things distinct when we talk about them. They aren't a Klingon bloodline, that will be dishonored if mispronounced, or something.

Are you suggesting a Klingons & Kahless OGL game that utilizes retro-clones?

 

[Glyfair]

All in all this is a pointless question until you define terms. What is an "edition"?

The dictionary is not a lot of help as none of the definitions (at least at dictionary.com) come close to what people expect. Most of those definitions would have multiple editions just within say AD&D as each printing would be a new edition.

For practical purposes I think we need to exclude third party games tied to D&D (such as the Hackmaster and Pathfinder) as the OGL spun off so many different systems from d20 that we'd end up arguing fine points of which different game qualified as "D&D" or something else. Since we get huge arguments over whether 4E is D&D, expanding it to Castles and Crusades, Mutants and Masterminds, Arcana Unearthed, etc. would just be an exercise in futility.

My questions would include: How far do rules changes need to go to be considered a new edition? Can a branch of a traditional existing edition (such as 4E Essentials, Unearthed Arcana and Player's Options) be a new edition and if so, then when does it happen?

Come to a consensus and what constitutes a new edition and then you can work on deciding how many editions of D&D there have been.

 

[Umbran]

Are you suggesting a Klingons & Kahless OGL game that utilizes retro-clones?

Ouch! Holy obscure ST:TNG reference, Batman!

 

[Kaodi]

Why? Because the numbers in the name are the really important part?

Set aside, for the moment, the fact that WotC hasn't called it "5e". They have steadfastly refused to call it 5e. That's us calling it that.

Having set that aside, I think the proof is in the pudding. They can call it one edition to unite them all if the rules are written with significant effort to appeal to fans of all the games. The numbers are just so we can keep the things distinct when we talk about them. They aren't a Klingon bloodline, that will be dishonored if mispronounced, or something.

I think there is a certain elegance to a well considered taxonomy. As you have have said yourself, the main purpose of a name is to keep the editions distinct. And there is at least one definite sense in which they will not be distinct if we refer to the next edition as a number lower than its true number (it is not quite the same problem if the number is higher): the signifier " 5E " is not necessarily identical in meaning to " the fifth edition of Dungeons & Dragons " . It will always be reasonable to ask " Is the fifth edition of Dungeons and Dragons the fifth edition that was published, or is it the edition referred to as Fifth Edition? "

I will understand if people object to this on the grounds that the probability of anyone being vexxed by this ambiguity in real life is nil, but I believe I am correct in diagnosing it as an ambiguity. You can thank philosophy for warping my brain in this precise way.

( Edit: D&D Next is a lame name, unless it is to be followed eventually by D&D Try, in which case it would be elevated to freaking awesome. )

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Well 2e had some real division in it back in the day.

I know of 2 major 'breaks' atleast here in CT, and one funny one.

I know that there was atleast one 'edtion' of the phb for 2e that had diffrent weapons and non weapon profs in it, but I belive it is a miss print (no broad sword, diffrint two handed sword damge vs large creature, and a scholor non weapon prof, but herblism and something else changed who got it)

The major breaks that effected me and mine though was:

1)Revised rule set made -10hp set as a defualt death instead of an option, and changed 1st level hp to max instead of rolling. It also changed the wording of Backstab (to this day there is a fight as to weather that was a change in rules or a clarfaction of language). A hand full of spells got rewriten, and Bardic Lore got changed.

(((To me this was the first time I would have to buy a new rule book, and I refused, it was only becuse the raven loft book "domains of dread" had a PHB lite in the back that I got away with it, so I used that.)))

2) We had pick 1 or 2 things from other books for our worlds (Kits, Barbarians, Ninjas ect) and used combat and tactics. However a ffew of us went to play a Dragon Mountin adventure box set with a new DM, and got hit by "we play 3rd edtion rules"
What that DM called 3e was, 12 attributes (each one split in 2 and had to e within 2 of each other) build your own class with points (what your thac0 what your special adilities where, what your spell progrssion was), choose a base race, but spend points on that too. Psionics with Mthac0, and spells could be mana or perday.
To be honnest none of my group ever played, the rules were too diffrent for us, and we just went back to our revised game.

(((((Funny note: I know that group had changed ro 3.5 and called it 5e, I wonder what D&D next is to them since I no longer see them??)))

I started with a beginiers box set that was for 2e, it came with a 3 set of adventures around the city of Freedale, and the wizard Nethril, it was a weird strip down Forgotten realms, and it had easier to play then 2e rules, so that might be yet another hidden edtion

 

[diaglo]

I covered this lightly in the first EN World Presents video.

1974 - OD&D
1977 - Basic Set
1979 - AD&D
Etc....

Prior to OD&D was the Chainmail supplement. That and Outdoor Survival (1972) by Avalon Hill significantly influenced the creation of D&D.

are you saying 1edADnD circa 1979 b/c that's the release of the 3rd core book?
1edADnD Monster Manual (1977)
1edADnD PHB (1978)
1edADnD DMG (1979 revised)

1979 was also the year they stopped printing OD&D(1974).

edit:btw... Holmes Basic 2edD&D (1977)
Holmes Basic 3eD&D(1978)