How many ranks?

[InVinoVeritas]

So, a character starts out with a number of skills. How high is "good enough"?

For example, Heal gets quickly outclassed, and is usually not worth more than a couple of ranks, if that. Hide is better, but eventually invisibility becomes commonplace enough.

So, what, in your opinion, is the optimal rank amount for various skills? Which do you max out? Which do you rise to some level (5 ranks?) then forget?

 

[evilbob]

It honestly depends on your class role, but if you're looking for general advice...

Knowledge skills never really cease to be useful, and they can never be too high.

Spellcraft and Concentration are pretty similar for casters.

Tumble is one that is still good until you can roll about a 30 without trying.

All the "rogue" skills - Disable Device, Open Lock, etc. - are basically required to max if you're going to be the rogue. Those DCs only get harder.

I'm sure there are more...

 

[Dog Moon]

Hide is better, but eventually invisibility becomes commonplace enough.

Unfortunately, See Invis is just as common. Increasing hide never fails to be useful.

Skills where the DCs are opposed rolls are always the best to max out, IME. Your Hide versus their Spot. Both should be maxed out. Same with Move Silently versus Listen. Search DCs tend to get higher as you level and you want to make sure you find that leet loot. Same for traps. Also with traps is Disable Device. Bluff and Diplomacy, of course, as well as Sense Motive. Sucks knowing what the enemy is saying is false, but unable to have your character believe he is lying as well.

As for skills with set DCs, you really only need to make sure you succeed probably like 75% of the time. If you can put 12 ranks into Concentration and reasonably expect around 25 consistently, you probably don't need any more than that. Open Lock is the same, but higher DCs. Tumble is the same, though you need to take a careful look at the DCs to determine where precisely you want to stop [numerous possible modifiers for that skill]

 

[Krensus]

I'd say that you only want to pump Spellcraft until the total bonus to your roll is 24 so that you can identify most known spells and normal magic items with anything but a natural 1. The same with Concentration, as you only need to roll 15+spell level to cast defensively.

Spot, Search, and Listen really never tap out, nor do any Knowledge skills. As someone mentioned above, if you're the trap finding rogue, you need to keep things like Open Lock, Search, Decipher Script, Disable Device, etc. top ranked permanently because those DCs are just going to keep increasing. Dextrous characters should always keep Escape Artist high up there if it's a class skill, it's a life saver.

Besides those, I can't really think of any others that it matters.

 

[Nail]

So, what, in your opinion, is the optimal rank amount for various skills? Which do you max out? Which do you rise to some level (5 ranks?) then forget?

IMC, Knowledge skills can never be too high. That includes Spellcraft, at least the way we use it.

The "perception" skills -- Listen, Sense Motive, Spot -- can't be high enough either...depending on how your DM plays. In most games, surprise is determined by one of these skills. Usually that's Spot, but in well-crafted games it could be any of the three. Its best if at least 2 PCs in a group can max out these skills, just in case.

Skills like Balance, Climb, Jump, and Swim are good "5 ranks and then out" skills. Those 5 ranks will cover all of the common situations. And if the DM is being nasty with high DCs in these skill checks, there's no way to have enough ranks in them anyway, so why bother with more? Synergy from Balance and Jump are nice for that all important Tumble skill.

For those likely to get into melee, Tumble is a must. Max it out. Not only does it prevent AoOs from moving, but it helps with standing from prone. Once you're at a +25 check, you can stop.

For spell-casters, Concentration is a must. Max it out, at least until a +30 check.

For the face-man, Bluff and Diplomacy should be maxed. Gotta love turning people into fanatic followers!

For sneaky types, there's all the rest of the skills. I'm not sure I've seen a high enough Search or Disable Device check. The rest of these sneaky skills (Appraise, Disguise, Hide, Move Silently, Open Locks, Slight of Hand, etc) are *really* DM-dependent and Party-dependent, so there's really no way to generalize how many ranks to put into 'em. For example: if the DM gets all happy with scent or blindsight or tremorsence -- or if the rest of your party pretty much always kicks down the door and rushes in -- there's little point to the Hide skill.

Most pointless skill? Heal, I'd argue. With a Cleric around, why bother? 0 ranks, baby.

 

[irdeggman]

I'd say that you only want to pump Spellcraft until the total bonus to your roll is 24 so that you can identify most known spells and normal magic items with anything but a natural 1. The same with Concentration, as you only need to roll 15+spell level to cast defensively.

Unless you are going epic then it is important for epic spellcasting.

 

[sukael]

I'd say that you only want to pump Spellcraft until the total bonus to your roll is 24 so that you can identify most known spells and normal magic items with anything but a natural 1. The same with Concentration, as you only need to roll 15+spell level to cast defensively.

Anything including a natural 1, you mean, because skill checks never auto-fail.

 

[Mistwell]

Player's Handbook II and Rules Compendium add a lot of rules that make higher ranks in skills more useful. For example, both start introducing rules that, if you beat a DC by a LOT, you get an added effect.

 

[irdeggman]

Anything including a natural 1, you mean, because skill checks never auto-fail.

Except for UMD

Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

 

[Klaus]

So, a character starts out with a number of skills. How high is "good enough"?

For example, Heal gets quickly outclassed, and is usually not worth more than a couple of ranks, if that. Hide is better, but eventually invisibility becomes commonplace enough.

So, what, in your opinion, is the optimal rank amount for various skills? Which do you max out? Which do you rise to some level (5 ranks?) then forget?

I'd rather always max 'em out and make up new skill uses for higher level checks, like letting Heal actually, y'know, heal.