How much do your trust the advice of others?

I have attempted now and then to play the guitar, and you can take it as a given that you are better than me. :)
Except that I literally can't, because me saying "I've played guitar for 25 years" leaves out enough important details about how much time and effort I have dedicated to the activity that it might actually be synonymous with your "I have attempted now and then to play the guitar."

I haven't even touched my guitar for almost a year at the moment, but because I could pick it up and pluck out a few notes if I felt like it (the equivalent of being able to get a group together and run a session, even if whatever players I wrangle into it don't have fun and/or come back for another session), I haven't "stopped playing guitar" so the years keep adding to how long I've played, even though I'm actually getting worse at playing as time goes on because I'm out of practice. And that is why "I've been running D&D for 30 years" doesn't communicate anything at all beyond that the first time the person saying it ran D&D was 30 years ago.
 

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Except that I literally can't, because me saying "I've played guitar for 25 years" leaves out enough important details about how much time and effort I have dedicated to the activity that it might actually be synonymous with your "I have attempted now and then to play the guitar."

I haven't even touched my guitar for almost a year at the moment, but because I could pick it up and pluck out a few notes if I felt like it (the equivalent of being able to get a group together and run a session, even if whatever players I wrangle into it don't have fun and/or come back for another session), I haven't "stopped playing guitar" so the years keep adding to how long I've played, even though I'm actually getting worse at playing as time goes on because I'm out of practice. And that is why "I've been running D&D for 30 years" doesn't communicate anything at all beyond that the first time the person saying it ran D&D was 30 years ago.

Except not. You haven't been playing the guitar for 25 years. You've been playing off and on for 25 years, which is significantly different and gives people a different message.
 

Except not. You haven't been playing the guitar for 25 years. You've been playing off and on for 25 years, which is significantly different and gives people a different message.
Yeah, I'm gonna just say "Nah, that's wrong Max." and here is why:

You have just established that I'm not allowed to say "I've played guitar for 25 years" because I've had breaks that are long enough - according to you, not to me - to count as stopping and then starting up again some time later.

So everyone who says "I've been running D&D for 30 years" has to mean they have run at least 1 session literally every day of that 30 years if they are objectively meaning something different than "I've been running D&D off and on for 30 years."

Because there isn't, and there won't ever be, an agreed upon interval between D&D sessions that is the maximum allowed while not counting as having quit playing and then re-started later. It is up to the person whether they have quit (which means they intend not to do the thing any more) or are just waiting for the next opportunity. For example, I have quit smoking - I'm not just currently out of cigarettes. The difference between those two states being my intentions regarding the activity, not the amount of time that has passed since my last cigarette.

But yes, someone saying "I've been doing this for 30 years" and someone saying "I've been doing this off and on for 30 years" are giving people a significantly different message - that's my exact point as to why the former statement doesn't actually communicate anything other than how long ago the first time was, and thus is a reason to mistrust anyone if they think such a statement communicates anything else.
 

Except that I literally can't, because me saying "I've played guitar for 25 years" leaves out enough important details about how much time and effort I have dedicated to the activity that it might actually be synonymous with your "I have attempted now and then to play the guitar."
You're still better. Believe me.

I haven't even touched my guitar for almost a year at the moment, but because I could pick it up and pluck out a few notes if I felt like it (the equivalent of being able to get a group together and run a session, even if whatever players I wrangle into it don't have fun and/or come back for another session), I haven't "stopped playing guitar" so the years keep adding to how long I've played, even though I'm actually getting worse at playing as time goes on because I'm out of practice. And that is why "I've been running D&D for 30 years" doesn't communicate anything at all beyond that the first time the person saying it ran D&D was 30 years ago.
Would a count of sessions-run be more useful?

For example if I told you I've run about 1800 sessions over the last 34 years, about 99% of which were in three ten-plus year campaigns*, that should at least inform you that I've got some experience running games (as shown by the session count), and that whatever I'm doing I'm doing it right enough that the players keep coming back for the next session (as shown by the campaign length).

* - disclaimer - this will become true as of this Friday, which is the ten-year date for my current campaign. The other two went 10.5 and 12.5 years.

And the same sort of things can apply to guitar playing. You've been playing for 25 years but have you ever been in a band for any length of time? If yes, then obviously you're good enough that they kept you around...and thus are better than me.

Lan-"I do play in a studio band (keyboards and vocals) but if they see me even looking at the guitar they wisely do their best to dissuade me"-efan
 

You're still better. Believe me.
I'm not saying I'm not - I'm just saying no proof of my skill-level with guitar has been provided, and as such, you are assuming without evidence that you are not as good as I am.

You've fallen into the trap that people using "I've done this for years" as if it bolsters the quality of their opinion are hoping that people reading/listening will fall into - that you'll assume those years mean significant time and effort spent with an intention to get better, rather than just keep doing the same old thing over and over again.

Would a count of sessions-run be more useful?
Absolutely. Anything that is an actually quantifiable measure of effort spent or how people felt about that effort is inherently superior to a vague notion that perhaps effort was spent and quality was achieved.

For example if I told you I've run about 1800 sessions over the last 34 years, about 99% of which were in three ten-plus year campaigns*, that should at least inform you that I've got some experience running games (as shown by the session count), and that whatever I'm doing I'm doing it right enough that the players keep coming back for the next session (as shown by the campaign length).
Precisely, more or less. That's what I am talking about when I point out that "I've been a DM for 34 years" doesn't convey important details that are necessary in order for me to make a comparison to how much effort I've put into things relative to you.

If we just stuck with your "34 years" and my "25 years" most people would assume that you've put more time into the hobby than I have. But if we mention how many sessions we've each run during our years, your 1,800 seems like the smaller amount of time than my nearly 4,000. And if we factor in the number of hours of game-play for each of those sessions, who appears to have put in more time may flip around yet again (like if your session are usually 9+ hours long on average and mine only average out to 4+ hours [I think it's more like 6, but it's dropping over time because of life schedules limiting my group to 4 hour sessions lately, and I haven't re-done the math lately]).

But the length of your campaigns doesn't actually convey that people were coming back because of the quality of your game (unfortunately, that's a really hard thing to actually to quantify).

And the same sort of things can apply to guitar playing. You've been playing for 25 years but have you ever been in a band for any length of time? If yes, then obviously you're good enough that they kept you around...and thus are better than me.
You are assuming "I'm in a band" and "I'm in a band that people actually want to listen to" are synonymous when they are demonstrably not. Any group of people that owns instruments and tries to play them together, no matter how lacking in proficiency they all are, can accurately say "I'm in a band."

Middle-schoolers that just got their very first woodwind yesterday are in a band, and are unlikely to get kicked out for the quality of their playing (at least, in places that haven't completely gutted the music department due to lack of school funding), and professionals with stunning skills get tossed from bands pretty frequently for reasons other than their quality of playing. So me saying "I was in a band" doesn't necessarily rule out me, and my band mates, all being absolutely awful at playing our instruments.

Much like someone saying "I've been DMing for this group of players for about a decade now" doesn't rule out that they are awful at DMing and the players keep letting them DM because none of them want to do it and they don't have any other options that keep showing up and saying "Hey guys, wanna play some D&D?" - which to add a brief anecdote, is the situation I found a group in when I moved to my current city; I found a group, joined them, started DMing for them, and they never wanted to have their old DM run the game anymore afterward.
 

Yeah, I'm gonna just say "Nah, that's wrong Max." and here is why:

You have just established that I'm not allowed to say "I've played guitar for 25 years" because I've had breaks that are long enough - according to you, not to me - to count as stopping and then starting up again some time later.

So everyone who says "I've been running D&D for 30 years" has to mean they have run at least 1 session literally every day of that 30 years if they are objectively meaning something different than "I've been running D&D off and on for 30 years."

Because there isn't, and there won't ever be, an agreed upon interval between D&D sessions that is the maximum allowed while not counting as having quit playing and then re-started later. It is up to the person whether they have quit (which means they intend not to do the thing any more) or are just waiting for the next opportunity. For example, I have quit smoking - I'm not just currently out of cigarettes. The difference between those two states being my intentions regarding the activity, not the amount of time that has passed since my last cigarette.

But yes, someone saying "I've been doing this for 30 years" and someone saying "I've been doing this off and on for 30 years" are giving people a significantly different message - that's my exact point as to why the former statement doesn't actually communicate anything other than how long ago the first time was, and thus is a reason to mistrust anyone if they think such a statement communicates anything else.

Here.

on and off
or off and on
phrase
If something happens on and off, or off and on, it happens occasionally, or only for part of a period of time, not in a regular or continuous way.

It doesn't have to be daily. Weekly or even bi-weekly is enough to avoid being off and on. Maaaaaaaybe even monthly. Beyond that and no.
 

Here.

It doesn't have to be daily. Weekly or even bi-weekly is enough to avoid being off and on. Maaaaaaaybe even monthly. Beyond that and no.
The definition that you just selected doesn't even support your own stated cut off point.

Every 4th Thursday, once a season, or even once each year are all "regular" and can be "continuous", and thus are entirely no less fitting to be excluded from your provided definition of "on an off" than the weekly is.

You're not creating a consensus by trying to steamroll other people's opinions - especially not if you are saying that folks who get together 1 Saturday every other month to spend their whole day playing D&D with their group that have scattered a bit over the years have to say they are "off an on D&D players" as if they are somehow less dedicated to or invested in the hobby than anyone that has the convenience of being able to play more often.
 

While we're debating philosophical questions, here's one: how many amateur guitarists does it take to derail a thread? :p
 

While we're debating philosophical questions, here's one: how many amateur guitarists does it take to derail a thread? :p
Your humorous jab doesn't make sense.

The topic of the thread is "how much do you trust the advice of others?" and us amateur guitarists are engaging in a conversation about why a particular common thing that accompanies the advice of others, the statement of their experience in exceptionally vague terms, is an indicator that less trust should be given to said advice. It's entirely on topic.
 

Your humorous jab doesn't make sense.

The topic of the thread is "how much do you trust the advice of others?" and us amateur guitarists are engaging in a conversation about why a particular common thing that accompanies the advice of others, the statement of their experience in exceptionally vague terms, is an indicator that less trust should be given to said advice. It's entirely on topic.

At the risk of spoiling the joke by explaining it, I would say that there's a difference between the letter of the topic (the thread title, as you quote) and the spirit of it (where the focus was, primarily on the appropriateness of CharOp advice for new players).

Or maybe I was just feeling exceptionally cheeky this morning.
 

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