How much for a permanent shillelagh?

[Plane Sailing]

How much would you expect a permanent shillelagh to cost? Either a club or a quarterstaff that always functioned as a shillelagh in the hands of a druid (i.e. +1 to hit, damage as if two sizes larger - 2d6 for a M shillelagh).

Do you think this works OK with the general formula for a use-activated item (1 x 1 x 2000gp) or is it best treated as a +1 weapon with a +2 bonus effect for 18,000gp? (it is better than a plain +1d6 effect like flaming because the "extra" damage it gets is multiplied on a crit and isn't subject to resistances. I know it isn't "extra" damage but that seems like the best comparison I can think up at the moment)

I'm at a loss to know what exactly is the best point to price this at, and I'd appreciate any help from someone who does this sort of thing a lot

Cheers



Cheers

 

[AuraSeer]

If you were to treat it as a use-activated item and price it at 2000 gp, it would outshine other magic items at the same price point. Nobody would want to use a +1 magic weapon, because the perma-shilellagh would be cheaper and do more damage. That's a clear sign that the price is out of wack.

18k seems about right. I could probably be convinced to discount it because it only works in the hands of a druid, but not by more than a couple of thousand.

 

[Darklone]

A +1 quarterstaff with the shillelagh abilities would cost similar to a +4 weapon in my games. I'm not nice I guess.

After all, it's a "huge" +1 double weapon. That only works for you. Wonderful. The only doubleweapon in the book with simple weapon proficiency and 2d6 +1 damage on both ends.

Edit: Piece by piece: you got essentially two +1 weapons with + 3.5 damage. I compare that approximately with two +2 weapons. Further size increases (Enlarge Person) will yield even more extra damage IIRC. The only works for you function is only an additional advantage.

 

[Staffan]

A +1 quarterstaff with the shillelagh abilities would cost similar to a +4 weapon in my games. I'm not nice I guess.

Edit: Piece by piece: you got essentially two +1 weapons with + 3.5 damage. I compare that approximately with two +2 weapons. Further size increases (Enlarge Person) will yield even more extra damage IIRC. The only works for you function is only an additional advantage.

Note that two +2 weapons (or a double weapon with +2 on either end) does not cost as much as a +4 weapon - 16,000 gp vs. 32,000.

 

[Thaniel]

If you were to treat it as a use-activated item and price it at 2000 gp, it would outshine other magic items at the same price point. Nobody would want to use a +1 magic weapon, because the perma-shilellagh would be cheaper and do more damage. That's a clear sign that the price is out of wack.

18k seems about right. I could probably be convinced to discount it because it only works in the hands of a druid, but not by more than a couple of thousand.

Actually, it would cost 4000gp in 3.5e. Shillelagh's duration is measured in minutes and therefore the cost for a use-activated version is doubled. But since this is still cheaper than a +1/+1 quarterstaff, it's a moot point. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[Diirk]

I'd be fine with putting it at around 5000, but of course since shillelagh doesn't work on magical weapons I'd say no further upgrades/enchantments to it are possible, making it of pretty dubious usefulness.

No DR piercing, no ghost touch, no holy, etc etc. Just 2d6+1 damage, forever. Its not really that fantastic.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Some interesting points of view, thanks.

The double weapon aspect would mean (I guess) that a quarterstaff shillelagh should be more expensive than a club shillelagh.

I was thinking along the lines of Diirk's point that it would be great when you first get it but it can't be enchanted further for extra bonuses or nifty powers, so by the time you reach about 10th level it might start looking a little shabby next to some of the other weapon options that start becoming available. It starts off looking better than a quarterstaff +2/+2 but never gets any better.

(n.b. how does it work out if it is a "uses per day" item - say 5 times a day?)

Cheers

 

[BigAlzBub]

Since its a weapon, it should have enhancement bonus rather than a flat cost, its similar in power level to an elemental bursting weapon, but does more damage (+2d6 rather than +1d6), however unlike an elemental bursting weapon, it does not automatically bypass damage reduction, but it does scale up the damage on a critical hit, so I would value it between +2 and +3, leaning slightly towards the +3.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Since its a weapon, it should have enhancement bonus rather than a flat cost, its similar in power level to an elemental bursting weapon, but does more damage (+2d6 rather than +1d6), however unlike an elemental bursting weapon, it does not automatically bypass damage reduction, but it does scale up the damage on a critical hit, so I would value it between +2 and +3, leaning slightly towards the +3.

Compare it with a holy weapon, though - that does +2d6 against most things you are going to fight as an adventurer for a measly +2 (I think the elemental burst weapons are grossly overcharged for their effect in comparison)

 

[BigAlzBub]

Yes but a holy weapon only damages evil creatures, yes adventures often fight only evil creatures, but the point is that when you fight animals, elementals, Plants, vermin, or mindless undead, this weapon continues to function where your holy weapon doesn't. If you think +3 is too high try +2 or even +1 and see if its overpowered, these things need playtesting, I just did a rough comparison between weapon powers rather than try guestimate a cost based on the formulas in the back of the DMG, after all some of the items you can make with the formulas are truly broken, like an item than can cast cure light wounds 5 times a day, I forget exactly how much it costs but is in the region of 2000 gold.

I don't think than elemental burst weapons are overpriced, they are specialised, they work best with weapons that have a high critical range eg. scimitar (with keen or improved critical) or weapons that have a high multiplier eg. Scythe (+3d10), remember that elemental burst weapons still act as an elemental laced weapon (ie shocking burst acts as a shock weapon)