How Much of D&D is the Rules?

[Argyle King]

And I think this is what I was trying to get at. If you scrapped the d20 and went with a 2d6 system, it would dramatically change how the game plays. Remove the class system and most people wouldn't call the game D&D anymore. So on and so forth.

Mechanics matter. They are very important. Playing The Keep on the Borderlands with FATE or Dread would be a very different experience than playing it with any system of D&D. You could have the same group, same GM, same adventure, but change the system and that's a very different experience.

I agree.

 

[Salamandyr]

And I think this is what I was trying to get at. If you scrapped the d20 and went with a 2d6 system, it would dramatically change how the game plays. Remove the class system and most people wouldn't call the game D&D anymore. So on and so forth.

Mechanics matter. They are very important. Playing The Keep on the Borderlands with FATE or Dread would be a very different experience than playing it with any system of D&D. You could have the same group, same GM, same adventure, but change the system and that's a very different experience.

My preferred version of D&D does use the 2d6, for reaction and morale checks. It uses a single d6 for surprise, secret door and trap detection, and whether you can successfully force a stuck door open. It uses percentile dice for some other things. And ultimately, the underlying mechanic to all of these is, "figure the odds on something and then roll appropriate dice to see if it works". At one table they might roll d100 to determine if someone with a 25% chance succeeds, at another they might just roll d4.

And all that feels like D&D to me. D&D has had a lot more mechanics than just "roll a d20 and add a number" (and incidentally making everything work on that mechanic was a really bad call) and has managed to feel like D&D.

By contrast, Dungeon World doesn't feel like D&D not because of its resolution mechanic, which feels a LOT like D&D, but because of it's narrative consequence system. Kobolds don't attack and hit you because they're evil kobolds bent on slaughtering you, but because you chose to do something and didn't roll high enough so now you have a "complication".

If a game allows me to say "My 7th Level fighter attacks the black dragon with his +3 longsword" and all that makes sense in the context of the game, then it probably feels like D&D enough for me.

 

[Warbringer]

If a game allows me to say "My 7th Level fighter attacks the black dragon with his +3 longsword" and all that makes sense in the context of the game, then it probably feels like D&D enough for me.

Wait... +3 longswords at 7th level....I want to play

Actually, reminds me of one of my favorite characters in 1e, Half-Elf Ranger Arias Woodfriend, had +3 frost brand by 8th... Used it mainly to put out fires caused by the Magic-User...(that character also burned a wish to allow him to become a named Ranger.. ie 9th level )

 

[Jester David]

I just think this is an interesting discussion and topical, given [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]' saying 13th Age is D&D and putting that game in these forums.

Pathfinder has the rules of D&D but only half the lore. Is it D&D?
13th Age has half the lore and half the rules. Is it D&D?
Dungeon Command and Wrath of Ashardalon have much of lore and a little of the rules but have the name. Are they D&D?

 

[Savage Wombat]

I also think that the whole concept of leveling is a rule that makes me feel like I'm playing D&D.

I don't see Champions or Vampire players working under the assumption that "I'm adventuring because when I get enough experience/gold, I'll be tougher and able to fight tougher monsters/encounters". I don't see GURPS players, in the dungeon or not, building a character with the intent of earning 50 experience points so that their character will eventually be able to do the cool thing they imagined for them.

 

[howandwhy99]

In OD&D, the rules are the whole game. Want something in the game that isn't there? Players ask for it, but the DM needs to build it/convert it into the game rule mechanics. There is no fluff or hand waving. It's all strategy, all the time.

EDIT:
In D&D levels are about the social role / class the player is performing. Greater player prowess results in greater character/abstracted abilities. There are no 20th level characters a.k.a. 20th level personalities. You can be a 20th level fighter or wizard and have a crummy personality.

 

[DMBrendon]

I've always thought that the best bit of D&D was going beyond the rules - the creative freedom to make stuff up on the fly.

 

[pemerton]

Playing The Keep on the Borderlands with FATE or Dread would be a very different experience than playing it with any system of D&D. You could have the same group, same GM, same adventure, but change the system and that's a very different experience.

True. But play those adventures with Rolemaster, or Runequest, or C&S, or HARP, or even Burning Wheel, and the experience will be much closer to D&D.

 

[Hussar]

True. But play those adventures with Rolemaster, or Runequest, or C&S, or HARP, or even Burning Wheel, and the experience will be much closer to D&D.

Well, Rolemaster is close enough to 3e that sure, I'm fairly certain the experience would be similar. C&S and HARP are both close enough to AD&D that, again, it's not a really huge jump. Not surprising given the history of the games.

But, again, going a bit further afield, and you start getting very different experiences. As [MENTION=40233]Salamandyr[/MENTION] said, in D&D, the kobold attacks you because that's what kobolds do. In other games, the kobold attacks you because you gained a complication from an action you took.

 

[Viking Bastard]

We played "D&D" using GURPS for years. We just cherry picked cogs into a D&D shape.