How Much Rolemaster in D&D?

[billd91]

Really? I would have sworn we used 10 siders for inititive in 1st edition and d6s for surprise rolls. Of course, it's been 15 years (at least) since I played any 1st edition.

Lots of people did use d10 for initiative in 1st edition, but it was a wide-spread house rule (and probably the very reason 2nd edition adopted it). The RAW has them as d6.

 

[kilamanjaro]

Thanks, billd91, I'm sure that must be it. I started playing 1st edition with an established group and never read much of the rules.

 

[Henry]

Don't feel bad -- Gary Gygax used a d10 for his house rules games of AD&D init, also.

 

[TerraDave]

J.Tweet blames Runequest:

http://www.jonathantweet.com/jotgameppaward.html#RuneQuest

And I always heard that Rolemaster was "Chartmaster", something that harkens back to an earlier version of D&D (or Hackmaster...master=chart?)

 

[Rel]

As someone who used to write for RMSS and has played a LOT of Rolemaster (both RM2 and RMSS), I'm just not seein' it. There are lots of pretty big differences between the RM skill rules and the D&D skill rules. I don't really consider the fact that you pay points to increase ranks to be all that conclusive an argument to indicate that the D&D skill system was derived largely from RM.

It seems a little bit like saying, "The cow is derivitive of the dog because both have four legs."

Not that it really matters to either system (both of which I think highly of) but that's my opinion.

 

[MerricB]

I know the XP that happens from CR vs Level is another near direct yank from the Rolemaster system.

However, that Rolemaster XP system is a refinement of the original D&D system (and later AD&D system) where you were meant to adjust XP according to the relative challenge of the monster.

Thus, if a party of four 5th level characters defeated four orcs (HD 1), they'd only gain 1/5th of the XP in AD&D; and likewise, the XP for the treasure would be modified downwards.

Cheers!

 

[Rel]

However, that Rolemaster XP system is a refinement of the original D&D system (and later AD&D system) where you were meant to adjust XP according to the relative challenge of the monster.

Thus, if a party of four 5th level characters defeated four orcs (HD 1), they'd only gain 1/5th of the XP in AD&D; and likewise, the XP for the treasure would be modified downwards.

Cheers!

I'll add that the RM2 XP system bears NO resemblence to D&D (any incarnation) or ANY OTHER XP system I can think of. It was wack, increasingly intolerable and the ultimate reason that we came up with an entirely different XP system that we used intil very recently.

 

[Psion]

Don't buy it. If the D&D skill system resembles any antecedant, it resembles Alternity. RM... perhaps some mild resemblance, but D&D is much simpler. There isn't a different skill cost for each rank you buy in a level, there is "going back" (if you don't max out your ranks, you can do so later), and there are only two different costs -- class and cross class.

So they sort of share a similar scheme, but it's a rather mild resemblance.

 

[Akrasia]

Don't buy it. If the D&D skill system resembles any antecedant, it resembles Alternity. RM... perhaps some mild resemblance, but D&D is much simpler. There isn't a different skill cost for each rank you buy in a level, there is "going back" (if you don't max out your ranks, you can do so later), and there are only two different costs -- class and cross class.

So they sort of share a similar scheme, but it's a rather mild resemblance.

Of course since RM was produced in the earlier 80s, it could be the case that Alternity is derivative of RM (and 3e is derivative of Alternity...).

Yes the 3e skill system is somewhat simpler that RM 2e's skill system. The 3e skill system is in fact, for the most part, the MERP system (replacing MERP's d100 with d20, of course).

Skill system aside, the whole idea of a 'unified mechanic' where rolling high is 'always good' has been part of Rolemaster since 1980 (and MERP shortly afterwards). Everything in Rolemaster -- including spells -- was determined by rolling a d100, adding PC bonuses, and checking the result.

Rolemaster also had a single, unified experience progression chart. Unlike OAD&D, Rolemaster classes were designed to be 'equivalent' in terms of power at each and every level.

Yeah, I would say that 3e is full of Rolemaster/MERP influences ...

 

[Psion]

Of course since RM was produced in the earlier 80s, it could be the case that Alternity is derivative of RM (and 3e is derivative of Alternity...).

I consider the resemblance so slight as to be discountable.

Skill system aside, the whole idea of a 'unified mechanic' where rolling high is 'always good' has been part of Rolemaster since 1980

Rolemaster was not the first -- and is far from the only -- unified mechanic RPG.

Rolemaster also had a single, unified experience progression chart.

That one is a bit more arguable, as D&D bears a bit closer resemblance there. That said, I seem to remember Tunnels & Trolls having only one XP chart. (Any recall that can confirm/deny). I also remember Bushido having a unified XP chart (though it only had 6 levels.)