OneDnD How much would you spend on monthly subscriptions for dnd?

How much would you spend on monthly subscriptions for dnd?

  • $0

    Votes: 92 61.3%
  • $10 or less

    Votes: 44 29.3%
  • $25 or less

    Votes: 13 8.7%
  • $50 or less

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • More than $50

    Votes: 0 0.0%

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Since me and my table have quit 5e and won't play D&D in the foreseeable future, I'm not gonna spend a cent on it.
I suppose not. Why would you spend money on a game you have quit? I'm mildly confused. I'm also not spending money on antique chinese tea sets or discarded NASA rocket parts.

I guess the most interetsing question is why you are posting in a thread about a game you don't play and have no intention of playing? That sounds like really hard work. The number of things you don't intent to do surely outweighs the number of things you intend to do. Maybe post about the latter?

But otherwise, please tell us about your thoughts on pottery, skydiving, and deep-sea diving. :)
 

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HaroldTheHobbit

Adventurer
I suppose not. Why would you spend money on a game you have quit? I'm mildly confused. I'm also not spending money on antique chinese tea sets or discarded NASA rocket parts.

I guess the most interetsing question is why you are posting in a thread about a game you don't play and have no intention of playing? That sounds like really hard work. The number of things you don't intent to do surely outweighs the number of things you intend to do. Maybe post about the latter?

But otherwise, please tell us about your thoughts on pottery, skydiving, and deep-sea diving. :)
Shure. Despite your snarky and sarcastic tone I will enlighten you.

Regarding pottery it has an interesting history, from purely functional containers, via vessels with religious and sociocultural connotations, to todays hypercommercialized products. But besides being a product, pottery has since the arts and craft movement in the late 19th century also been a medium for self expression with a therapeutic function for the bourgeois. And precisely that dualism is why pottery - far removed from antique greek urns - is still interesting today.

Skydiving is largely a mystery to me, not the least because I get vertigo by standing on a kitchen table. The most interesting aspect of it though is that it's part of the cult of physical kicks, an expression of the hunt for meaning in late modernity's commodification of the self. If you are interested I can tell you more about my thoughts about that.

Deep-sea diving is another expression of the above, but in another direction, towards a more spiritual direction. On the other hand, exploring the deep blue also has both scientific meaning and connotations of capitalism. In these days of over-exploitation of the earth the deep sea still is both virgin grounds for exploration and a sense of mystery, and maybe the last area to rape for material gain. It's complicated.

If you think that I have written something wrong in a thread, a friendly reminder goes a long way, to keep up the tone I guess you want in your forum. Or maybe the snarky reply should be interpreted as an example you want us to follow?
 

Remathilis

Legend
That's what I keep wondering. Folks seem very annoyed with Hasbro/WotC, but I can't for the life of me identify anything they've done that seems egregious. Their books have always been well priced. DnDBeyond is incredibly cheap, and the micro-transactions on it actually save you money by letting you choose to buy part of a book instead of the whole thing (plus, if you change you mind later and do want the rest of it, they discount what you already paid).

All the expensive stuff in the hobby is sold by third parties like Wizkids, Dwarven Forge, Beadle&Grimm, etc.

I don't understand what is driving the anger towards WotC. They've always been straight shooters, in my experience. They've got a good reputation with their staff, ex-staff, and business partners. They've done much better by their creatives than TSR ever did, that's for sure!

Maybe that will change, but it doesn't seem fair to judge them for stuff that might or might not happen. Given their history, I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'm pretty sure it stems from the Magic: The Gathering side of WotC, where the monetization of cards (both on the primay and secondary market) has made play difficult for all but the most dedicated whales. It's not just $1000 randomized proxy cards either; it's the constant churn of multiple sets (often one per month), supplemental items, card bans and meta-shakeups, and the fact that even Arena, their "free to play" MTG online system, is heavily weighted toward pay-to-win rather than slowly collecting into a viable deck. People fear that a level of monetization equal to that could be coming to D&D.

Now, truth be told, I don't think they can MTG-ize D&D. They did the splat-of-the-month-club style of content release and it failed. D&D Beyond currently is monetized about as far as you can take table-top D&D. (Digital books, subscription rewards, virtual dice and pretty background "sheets") They might attempt to push the VTT (with purchasing minis, modules, terrain, etc.) but again, there are plenty of alternatives to that, ranging from Foundry to Roll20 to your kitchen table.
 

That's what I keep wondering. Folks seem very annoyed with Hasbro/WotC, but I can't for the life of me identify anything they've done that seems egregious. Their books have always been well priced. DnDBeyond is incredibly cheap, and the micro-transactions on it actually save you money by letting you choose to buy part of a book instead of the whole thing (plus, if you change you mind later and do want the rest of it, they discount what you already paid).

All the expensive stuff in the hobby is sold by third parties like Wizkids, Dwarven Forge, Beadle&Grimm, etc.

I don't understand what is driving the anger towards WotC. They've always been straight shooters, in my experience. They've got a good reputation with their staff, ex-staff, and business partners. They've done much better by their creatives than TSR ever did, that's for sure!

Maybe that will change, but it doesn't seem fair to judge them for stuff that might or might not happen. Given their history, I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Most of the lingering hatred stems from how they handled the digital products from 4th Edition, which were largely broken, proprietary, and downright horrific to use, despite charging a subscription fee. And because Wizards didn't want competition they refuses to allow any others to get licenses to create better alternative digital tools (legally). Objectively it was a disastrous failure and was one of the contributing factors to 4th Ed floundering while other competitors were far less restrictive with their digital side of things to great effect.

To make it clear, THAT is where the basis of concern stems: Wizards has already proven in the past that they are willing to tank an entire edition if it means maintaining a delusional sense "control" over their product or if they think it'll make them even $1 more profit.

Again, when you combine this a variety of other factors (the CEO talking at length about how they view the brand as "under monetized"), and a very legitimate concern that those 3rd party people do in fact have employees, many of whom whose livelihoods will be ruined if they are no longer able to support their staff from inability to make products or paying exorbitant Liscensing fees it is healthy to be concerned about the future of the industry.

Not to mention, for those of us who've been gaming for a long time, we've seen this song and dance before with video games. First people were outraged over horse armor while some people made comments like yours asking if it was really so bad? Now we've got microtransactions, loot boxes, live-service games, and psychological manipulation/techniques being used to systematically exploit vulnerable people. And people just largely accept it as "normal" for the industry now. They know full well what they are doing, and to pretend otherwise is foolish and shortsighted. Additionally, let's say they succeed in this scheme? Whose to say the rest of the rpg industry (paizo, chaoism, etc.) won't be next?


I'm pretty sure it stems from the Magic: The Gathering side of WotC, where the monetization of cards (both on the primay and secondary market) has made play difficult for all but the most dedicated whales. It's not just $1000 randomized proxy cards either; it's the constant churn of multiple sets (often one per month), supplemental items, card bans and meta-shakeups, and the fact that even Arena, their "free to play" MTG online system, is heavily weighted toward pay-to-win rather than slowly collecting into a viable deck. People fear that a level of monetization equal to that could be coming to D&D.

Now, truth be told, I don't think they can MTG-ize D&D. They did the splat-of-the-month-club style of content release and it failed. D&D Beyond currently is monetized about as far as you can take table-top D&D. (Digital books, subscription rewards, virtual dice and pretty background "sheets") They might attempt to push the VTT (with purchasing minis, modules, terrain, etc.) but again, there are plenty of alternatives to that, ranging from Foundry to Roll20 to your kitchen table.
That is until Wizards requires all third party VTTs to have a liscensing agreement or be unable to publish material for their new game of any kind, and then either just "forgets" or "refuses" to allow any of their direct competitors to have said licenses, or otherwise forces them to pay so large a cut they can no longer feasibly compete with their VTT. Pretty much what Amazon or Apple do with their respective markets already. And quite a number of people take issue there as well.

Remind me what they said in that press release again? That VTTs were NOT covered by the OGL and the new OGL update will clarify this? Hmm. :unsure:
 
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Incenjucar

Legend
It is entirely possible that WotC will take its digital tools and new licensing down a bad path, and that they will use whatever means to persuade 3rd parties to follow. However, we're still running primarily on speculation, and their ability to force any of this is limited, and trying to force it would likely backfire. PnP RPGs don't offer them the same kind of control that video game developers have in creating impulse control traps.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Most of the lingering hatred stems from how they handled the digital products from 4th Edition, which were largely broken, proprietary, and downright horrific to use, despite charging a subscription fee. And because Wizards didn't want competition they refuses to allow any others to get licenses to create better alternative digital tools (legally). Objectively it was a disastrous failure and was one of the contributing factors to 4th Ed floundering while other competitors were far less restrictive with their digital side of things to great effect.

To make it clear, THAT is where the basis of concern stems: Wizards has already proven in the past that they are willing to tank an entire edition if it means maintaining a delusional sense "control" over their product or if they think it'll make them even $1 more profit.

Again, when you combine this a variety of other factors (the CEO talking at length about how they view the brand as "under monetized"), and a very legitimate concern that those 3rd party people do in fact have employees, many of whom whose livelihoods will be ruined if they are no longer able to support their staff from inability to make products or paying exorbitant Liscensing fees it is healthy to be concerned about the future of the industry.

Not to mention, for those of us who've been gaming for a long time, we've seen this song and dance before with video games. First people were outraged over horse armor while some people made comments like yours asking if it was really so bad? Now we've got microtransactions, loot boxes, live-service games, and psychological manipulation/techniques being used to systematically exploit vulnerable people. And people just largely accept it as "normal" for the industry now. They know full well what they are doing, and to pretend otherwise is foolish and shortsighted. Additionally, let's say they succeed in this scheme? Whose to say the rest of the rpg industry (paizo, chaoism, etc.) won't be next?

That is until Wizards requires all third party VTTs to have a liscensing agreement or be unable to publish material for their new game of any kind, and then either just "forgets" or "refuses" to allow any of their direct competitors to have said licenses, or otherwise forces them to pay so large a cut they can no longer feasibly compete with their VTT. Pretty much what Amazon or Apple do with their respective markets already. And quite a number of people take issue there as well.

Remind me what they said in that press release again? That VTTs were NOT covered by the OGL and the new OGL update will clarify this? Hmm. :unsure:

While healthy scepticism is welcomed, this borders on Paranoia. It assumes WotC is outright lying about its intentions and that once the door is open, every other company (Paizo? Really?) Will step through it too.

WotC isn't stupid, contrary to popular belief. Getting Roll20 and other VTTs to pay for a license is far better PR than yanking it all and forcing them all onto their own. They still have to compete with other forms of entertainment, and today's gamer could move onto another hobby if they push too hard. WotC will play for the whales, but they will leave openings for others too.
 


mamba

Hero
WotC isn't stupid, contrary to popular belief. Getting Roll20 and other VTTs to pay for a license is far better PR than yanking it all and forcing them all onto their own.
Not charging a fee in the OGL is far better PR than doing so, yet here we are.

I grant you that the OGL is the more esoteric issue for most people, many more are aware of VTTs

No idea where you got forcing Paizo, Kobold and others onto the WotC VTT either
 


While healthy scepticism is welcomed, this borders on Paranoia. It assumes WotC is outright lying about its intentions and that once the door is open, every other company (Paizo? Really?) Will step through it too.

WotC isn't stupid, contrary to popular belief. Getting Roll20 and other VTTs to pay for a license is far better PR than yanking it all and forcing them all onto their own. They still have to compete with other forms of entertainment, and today's gamer could move onto another hobby if they push too hard. WotC will play for the whales, but they will leave openings for others too.
And personally I think you are not weary enough. Or perhaps have far more faith in a handful of out of touch executives to not make shortsighted decisions in pursuit of higher profit margins and the delusions of infinite growth... ya know, like every other corporation out there?

But hey, when you're paying a monthly fee to even play the game and buying "class packs" using some asinine fake currency like "astral diamonds" and your players are buying magic items against your wishes as a DM using "loot chests" (assuming of course you haven't been replaced by AI DMs at this point), you've only yourself to blame for not being "paranoid" enough to have seen it coming. I for one will not celebrate the painful death of another loved hobby at the hands of corporate greed's corrupting influence over the course of several years. That's one pot this particular frog won't just keep swimming in until I'm already boiled.
 

Not charging a fee in the OGL is far better PR than doing so, yet here we are.

I grant you that the OGL is the more esoteric issue for most people, many more are aware of VTTs

No idea where you got forcing Paizo, Kobold and others onto the WotC VTT either
The fee requires making a lot of money, and terms it’s under have not come out yet
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
But hey, when you're paying a monthly fee to even play the game and buying "class packs" using some asinine fake currency like "astral diamonds" and your players are buying magic items against your wishes as a DM using "loot chests" (assuming of course you haven't been replaced by AI DMs at this point), you've only yourself to blame for not being "paranoid" enough to have seen it coming. I for one will not celebrate the painful death of another loved hobby at the hands of corporate greed's corrupting influence over the course of several years. That one pot this particular frog won't just keep swimming in until I'm already boiled.
I don't see this happening, especially "buying magic items against your wishes as a DM using 'loot chests'", but I have no crystal ball. I could be wrong. But I see no reason for worry much less fall into paranoia. One game is not the hobby. Even if they stop printing books and create the VTT hellscape some are worried about, there are older versions of D&D. If they stop making those legally available on DMs Guild, there are lots of great games built based off the open license. There are also lots of great TTRPGs in the fantasy genre, and many other genres, that are not D&D at all.

So if they do all of this stuff, either they will see a huge drop in engagement and customers and will backpedal or lots of people will be perfectly happy with the new way of playing D&D and I'll just move to a retroclone or another system.

I follow these discussion because I find the business developments interesting and some posters have insightful things to say about them. But despite the many hours and dollars I've sunk into D&D since 2014, I still feel like I have very little skin in the game in terms of whatever WotC decides to do with it. And, so far, I'm liking what I see. I engage in much more hand wringing when spending my money on certain streaming services, my tech devices, my travel, or my clothes than I do on my gaming stuff. Hasbro/WotC is one of the most benign corporations I spend money on. About the worst I see them doing in the near future is making a product I'm no longer interested in paying for. Really hard for me to work up any angst about any of this.
 

And personally I think you are not weary enough. Or perhaps have far more faith in a handful of out of touch executives to not make shortsighted decisions in pursuit of higher profit margins and the delusions of infinite growth... ya know, like every other corporation out there?

But hey, when you're paying a monthly fee to even play the game and buying "class packs" using some asinine fake currency like "astral diamonds" and your players are buying magic items against your wishes as a DM using "loot chests" (assuming of course you haven't been replaced by AI DMs at this point), you've only yourself to blame for not being "paranoid" enough to have seen it coming. I for one will not celebrate the painful death of another loved hobby at the hands of corporate greed's corrupting influence over the course of several years. That's one pot this particular frog won't just keep swimming in until I'm already boiled.
This is just pointless paranoia.

I would need some actual evidence and precedence to worry about stuff like that.
 


$10/month is the absolute limit for me if you're charging for any content at all separately. And to get that you'd need to give me some really good tools and a bunch of content.

I could see $15 only if absolutely every single piece of WotC content was included and the tools were truly spectacular. Like DDI levels of functionality with a great UI, and super-responsive. Which isn't going to happen.
 

hedgeknight

Explorer
I chose the $10/month option because I'm a sucker for a good gaming magazine. Yes, one you can hold in your hands and flips through the pages over and over again until they are about to fall out. Unfortunately, I haven't found a good one in a very long time. But...the search continues. (Hint: I'm open to suggestions.)
I have zero (0) interest in VTT, or watching other people game on Twitch and YouTube. Zero. Since a lot of old timers like myself are getting harder to find, I do nearly all of my gaming in pbp (play-by-post) forums, to which I contribute annually for server upkeep and fees.
I could care less DnD Beyond, One D&D, and whatever comes after that. I'm going backwards, folks. ;)
But if that's your jam, good gaming to you, I say!
 

Clint_L

Hero
But hey, when you're paying a monthly fee to even play the game and buying "class packs" using some asinine fake currency like "astral diamonds" and your players are buying magic items against your wishes as a DM using "loot chests" (assuming of course you haven't been replaced by AI DMs at this point)...
So...how would WotC make all this stuff happen? Like, what would be their mechanism? Will they have teams of thugs that show up at my house and force me let my players use "astral diamonds" to buy legendary items and stuff? Or maybe to replace me with the AI? I don't understand how this is supposed to work. Or how this would make money for WotC.

I think it probably just means that they will have a VTT like Roll 20, but hopefully a lot easier to use for stupid people like me. And they will probably let you have a simple version of it for free, but charge you for additional assets, like adventure packs including all the maps and monsters and stuff. They'll probably have a basic character icon generator that is super cheap or free, but charge extra to get bells and whistles for your character. And it's all optional. If you want nothing to do with post 1974 technology, you'll still be able to play D&D with books, paper, pencils, and dice.
 

Remathilis

Legend
And personally I think you are not weary enough. Or perhaps have far more faith in a handful of out of touch executives to not make shortsighted decisions in pursuit of higher profit margins and the delusions of infinite growth... ya know, like every other corporation out there?

But hey, when you're paying a monthly fee to even play the game and buying "class packs" using some asinine fake currency like "astral diamonds" and your players are buying magic items against your wishes as a DM using "loot chests" (assuming of course you haven't been replaced by AI DMs at this point), you've only yourself to blame for not being "paranoid" enough to have seen it coming. I for one will not celebrate the painful death of another loved hobby at the hands of corporate greed's corrupting influence over the course of several years. That's one pot this particular frog won't just keep swimming in until I'm already boiled.
Pure paranoia.

D&D is not a video game. Unless they completely remove dice, physical books and living DMs from the game, your idea is impossible.
 



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