How Often Does Your Group Cast Stoneskin?

[Plane Sailing]

I don't remember ever seeing it cast in any of our games since 3e launched (unless an NPC villain cast it before a fight and we didn't notice other than that he lasted a little longer!)

 

[airwalkrr]

I do not play much these days, being mostly a DM. However, I am starting out the Savage Tides (we are three sessions in) and I am playing a wizard again (as I usually do when I am a player). Stoneskin will definitely be one of my most commonly used spells. The 250 gp cost is not an object when I can use it to give my party members DR. The warforged will gain comparatively less benefit from it, but I can see almost all other members of the party benefiting from it in many ways, especially myself since I took both a flaw and a trait that lowered my AC.

 

[Maldor]

Careful.

It's clear that you think it's not substantially better. I'm guessing this comes from experience. Does that mean there are no situations in which it is substantially better?

At 12th level (where the group(s) I saw it used in), there are often battles against groups of mooks -- but these mooks are opponents that are significant combatants in their own right. Gaining DR 10/adamantine often means taking virtually no damage the entire fight.

Add to that the duration of the spell. Given the spell lasts for 2 hours at that level, that means at least 2 - if not more - fights. That's significant, IMO.

i don't think your recalling it damage cap of 10 pionts a caster level (max 150)
i don't think its a bad spell but i don't consider it great ether the one time i've come across it since 2nd my fighter chewed though it in a few rounds and it was caster level 13 i think it took me three round might have been four.

 

[KarinsDad]

The comparison to curative spells is inappropriate. As an example, your argument suggests that resist energy should have a 250 gp material component. Compare it with other protective spells, but judging it against same level curative spells will certainly lead you to an inaccurate conclusion.

There is a substantial difference between a spell that protects versus the damage of one specific attack which may or may not occur (and often does not) and an attack which occurs in nearly all combats and often in most rounds.

I suspect Resist Energy is often cast and never even comes into play. I doubt the same occurs too often with Stoneskin.

So, my argument makes no such suggestion concerning spells which do not give DR. And in the case of other spells that do give DR, such an argument might be sound. For example, Iron Body. However, Iron Body is really high level (8th instead of 4th), lasts only one minute per level, and although it has other advantages over Stoneskin, it also has other disadvantages.


On the other hand, curing spells are the yardstick for defensive spell comparison. The point is not to equate the two, rather it is to indicate the potential casting time and spell slot savings. At low level, Stoneskin is worth the savings of casting nearly 3 same level Cure spells and at high level, it is worth nearly 5. In most long battles this is often true, but possibly not in shorter battles.

So, what we have is a defensive spell that is almost always useful and can save up to 3 to 5 actions (in or out of combat), 3 to 5 same level spells, and can be cast before any combat even begins and can still last for multiple combats in a day.

That's head and shoulders more defensively potent and useful than Resist Energy or the Cure spells.

 

[KarinsDad]

i don't think your recalling it damage cap of 10 pionts a caster level (max 150)
i don't think its a bad spell but i don't consider it great ether the one time i've come across it since 2nd my fighter chewed though it in a few rounds and it was caster level 13 i think it took me three round might have been four.

And your Fighter might have been dead or unconscious without it if you chewed through 130 hit points in 3 or 4 rounds.

 

[Nail]

And your Fighter might have been dead or unconscious without it if you chewed through 130 hit points in 3 or 4 rounds.

Yup. Maldor, that's 130 hp of damage your Ftr didn't take.

How many hit points does your 13th level Ftr have? 128 hp on average (assuming a 18 Con).

I.e., without Stoneskin, your PC might be dead.

 

[Infiniti2000]

At low level, Stoneskin is worth the savings of casting nearly 3 same level Cure spells and at high level, it is worth nearly 5.

I contend that that comparison is completely inappropriate. Worse, it's misleading. Back to my example which you inexplicably dismissed, consider an caster with resist energy (fire) stepping into a fire (or some high damage continual effect). How much damage does he "take" that would otherwise requiring healing -- and LOTS of it?

That's head and shoulders more defensively potent and useful than Resist Energy or the Cure spells.

What's the limit on Resist Energy?

Your dismissal of resist energy based on restrictive usage is ironic, considering that that's what stoneskin requires. Most people in this thread (perhaps even yourself) have suggested that the spell is far more useful on the meatshield. I bet the same suggestion does not hold for resist energy.

I.e., without Stoneskin, your PC might be dead.

Without any situational spell in the right situation, your PC might be dead. That half-dragon t-rex got a hold of your wizard? Dim Door, baby!

The fact is that we could drum up a situation that would make almost any spell seem too good. As it is, though, you guys have not responded to my query. If Stoneskin with no costly component is too good, what change (besides a costly component obviously) would rebalance it?

 

[amethal]

The standard D&D party should not include an accountant IMO.

Our five person gaming group has four accountants in it.

There's no way I'll be playing an accountant when I'm in character. Its bad enough the rest of the time

 

[KarinsDad]

I contend that that comparison is completely inappropriate. Worse, it's misleading. Back to my example which you inexplicably dismissed, consider an caster with resist energy (fire) stepping into a fire (or some high damage continual effect). How much damage does he "take" that would otherwise requiring healing -- and LOTS of it?

Well, maybe your PCs walk into fire or lava. Most of mine and most of the PCs I have ever seen played do not.

I also suspect that melee and ranged combat damage occurs more often against most PCs than fire as well.

Sure, all spells are situationally dependent. It just so happens that melee and ranged combat damage happens to be a situation that probably occurs more often than any other type in most campaigns. Fire, not so much.

 

[Nail]

As it is, though, you guys have not responded to my query. If Stoneskin with no costly component is too good, what change (besides a costly component obviously) would rebalance it?

Sorry, missed it.

If we took out the costly M, I'd lower the duration to 1 rd/lvl. That's probably sufficient.

Other ideas?