How on Earth do you have a tightly controlled D&D world with normal magic (Long)

[Broken Fang]

Hong - "There's a very simple fix to that. Give up DMing, and start playing. Hey presto, you have all the freedom in the world to make your character more important than the gear they're carrying."

I did...it didn't help them though. And this was recent...within the last year and with players who have been playing for sometime.

 

[hong]

I did...it didn't help them though.

Why is it your job to "help" the other players?

 

[Victim]

Let me just say that I, for one, love this kind of discussion.

Like Joshua Dyal, I prefer changing the system to suit the world to changing the world to fit the system.

Just to further complicate the discussion, you might think about how all of these high-powered monsters might have altered the human societies that had to develop alongside them.

In my world, most dragons surround themselves with near-worshippers, who serve the dragon in return for the dragon's protection. The serfs don't have to worry about marauders (what common bandits would want to anger a dragon?), and the dragon has plenty of support and warning if some other powerful group were trying to do something. . .

I also made the decision that most magic requires intensive education and training as well as (non-inheritable) inborn gifts, so that nearly everyone who learns magic to a high level was eligible for a good education (meaning they and their families were invested in the status quo), but that there aren't any inherited magic bloodlines to create an hereditary magocracy. Combine magical rarity with a tendency not to rock the boat and you can logically explain why magic has not had a profound effect on the world. Historically, it isn't until the development of modern capitalism in the 18th century that you have an elite that is interested in upsetting the status quo through innovation. The frequent observations that the misery of common folk was "the way it has always been" are right on the mark.

At the same time, those who have magical gifts are almost automatically caught up in the plots of the powerful. So you can have challenging opponents to battle in realms far beyon the notice of plodding commoners.

Boyoboy is this conversation fun.

Yeah, I agree about the Dragons. The whole assumption I'm working with is that individual power from HD, magic, etc will affect things. And who has greater power than dragons? So of course their presence will have a great impact.

Because powerful monsters are running around, I'd think that people are more accepting of the rule of powerful people. They need the powerful ruler's protection lest they be killed by monsters. Also, monsters discourage means of transfering power to individuals with less than heroic qualities, like fireball items that anyone can use. Common people are easily influenced by magic, so they can't really be trusted with any form of power.

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Grr. My mouse isn't working right. Any advice on how to fix it?

 

[Gez]

Some random comments:

Heat up the gold piece with continual flame on it and get a lump of gold with some ex-magic power.

Continual flame don't provide heat, only light.

Just to further complicate the discussion, you might think about how all of these high-powered monsters might have altered the human societies that had to develop alongside them.

Indeed. IMC, dragons and sphinxes are quite commonly seen in high position. They are frequently polymorphed, and most of them keep their true identity a secret, but this is not a general rule.

The frequent observations that the misery of common folk was "the way it has always been" are right on the mark.
Was... And still is.

 

[Hecatæus]

I am currently working on a campaign yet to be introduced whereby arcane magic was plentiful (with the world run by the bad guys) and is now almost poof-gone due to some disaster.(bad guys are apparantly gone too)

It is essentially a low magic campaign amongst the ruins of a high magic world.

Various powers seek to restore magic for their own gain.

monsters of the sort which would threaten peasants were originially designed and controlled by the bad guys through magic. In the disaster most monsters were destroyed, many who were left are still held in check by at least some magic.

That is the main theme, I am still considering just how to do this right.

 

[Desdichado]

Joshua Dyal - When you finish developing your system (Modern/CoC etc) let me know. That is also the type of feel I want to create I'm just finding myself to lazy to do it. Then again I am finding myself only time to play Warhammer 40k and a few PbEM games.

I'm trying to keep the workload down -- I'm making some slight modifications to the d20 Modern classes (like eliminating the skills that are clearly modern and removing the human extra skill from the base skill progression rates that the classes show) and, if you've got d20 Call of Cthulhu I'm going to use the Sanity system and magic "system" entirely as is, without any modification. The only thing I'm going to have to do is convert a bunch of other D&D/d20 spells into the mix and give them Sanity costs so they look like CoC spells. Most of that will be behind the scenes DM work though, and I probably won't really convert spells until I need them, to save on workload.

I'm thinking about running this game online too, although I haven't decided for sure yet. Maybe OpenRPG, or something that moves a little bit faster than PbP. I've also got some (very incomplete) stuff on the campaign at this location although I'll probably move that off geocities soon -- the popups they've incorporated in the last coupla years really annoy me. I don't actually have those pages in a state of enough completion that you could actually use them, though.

 

[Desdichado]

Let me just say that I, for one, love this kind of discussion.
Like Joshua Dyal, I prefer changing the system to suit the world to changing the world to fit the system.
[snip]
Boyoboy is this conversation fun.

I agree, this is fun. By the way, what changes have you actually made or looked at? I'm curious myself, as I'm always on the lookout for a new magic system. That's really my one remaining gripe with D&D now that 3e has essentially fixed everything else.

 

[jasper]

GEZ let me rephrase. Take the gold piece with Continual Flame on it. Melt it down. Bye bye spell.

Personally I don't see changing the system to get what I want. As Dm BOOM THERE IS. If I dogs and cats living together in sin...

After seeing how real world governments act, are suppose to be run etc, I see no difference on how it applies to D&D

Not enough food in Africa the church lady flies over on her magic carpet. Boom free food. More food more children. More children less food. Etc.

 

[Desdichado]

Personally I don't see changing the system to get what I want. As Dm BOOM THERE IS. If I dogs and cats living together in sin...

Personally, the perceived inconsistencies with D&D magic don't bother me nearly as much as the fact that D&D magic is unlike anything I've read in fantasy (with the exception of D&D fiction, obviously) and it doesn't have the flavor I want. I'm not necessarily a low-magic all the time kinda guy -- I think the DarkSword trilogy (or the first two books of it, anyway) show a really interesting high magic world, but that doesn't have magic at all like D&D magic.

 

[WizarDru]

Personally, the perceived inconsistencies with D&D magic don't bother me nearly as much as the fact that D&D magic is unlike anything I've read in fantasy (with the exception of D&D fiction, obviously) and it doesn't have the flavor I want. I'm not necessarily a low-magic all the time kinda guy -- I think the DarkSword trilogy (or the first two books of it, anyway) show a really interesting high magic world, but that doesn't have magic at all like D&D magic.

I agree, but how do you mold the system to more closely model something like say, The Belgariad or The Sword of Truth, and have it balanced for non-spellcasters? Or are you speaking more towards the feel of the system? My major problem with many fantasy novels is that the way the author limits magic is usually by it's rarity...a dramatic device that allows him to eat his cake and have it, too, since one of those rare fellows will invariably be a cast member. Magic is insanely powerful, but some mitigating plot factor prevents or impedes it...something a PC may not have to deal with. It's a slippery slope to walk.

I am curious how well the d20 CoC magic system works. If I read it right, it sounds like you won't be casting more than two or three spells. EVER. Not much fun to be a spellcaster there...usually it's a 'cast-or-die' situation, or worse a 'die-now-or-cast-and-die-later' situation. Yikes.