How powerful should magic be?

[Celebrim]

As a DM, there are times when I like magic to have 'the power of plot'. Since one of my rules as a DM is that NPC's and PC's should share common abilities, I believe that there is a level of ability where magic ought to be expected to do just about anything.

But it should be a very high level of ability.

At the lowest levels of ability, I expect magic to be feeble, representing such skills as are available to the lowliest apprentice of literature - but no more than that.

Everything else should be in the middle, and promise a long career of slowly increasing power and lore.

I have no real problem with the power level of D&D magic, but I do have a problem with how quickly and easily you can now ascend to the highest levels of power.

 

[Stalker0]

I've always felt that when a wizard fights a fighter, the fighter should win.

Why? Because wizards get so many noncombat things they can do. They can raise undead armies, control minds, predict the future, make a volcano erupt, stuff like that. A fighter, fights. Its what he does, its what he's good at.

Now in a campaign, it makes a lot more sense to have a high level wizard than a fighter as a BBEG. I mean whose more likely to survive, the guy who stays in the back and uses spells and summoned monsters, or the guy who literally jumps into the dragon's mouth? But if a fighter manages to make it to that level, he should have every equal level wizard quaking in his boots.

Wizards can reshape the world, but Conan comes calling, you had better back off.

 

[Daztur]

Well my idea magic system would probably be incredibly powerful but have very long casting times and big chances of backlash to reduce its utility. However, I don't think that that will fit very well into the tactical battle heavy mechanics of D&D. For D&D I just want the casters to have the same amount of power as anyone else of their level.

 

[Jhaelen]

I've always felt that when a wizard fights a fighter, the fighter should win.

Yep. At least if the wizard is unprepared and the fighter manages to get close. Wait! Isn't that just the way things are? Hmm...

It's pretty late in the game when wizards become unbeatable, i.e. after D&D's sweet spot. So, I hope it won't happen in 4E at all.

 

[apoptosis]

Well my idea magic system would probably be incredibly powerful but have very long casting times and big chances of backlash to reduce its utility. However, I don't think that that will fit very well into the tactical battle heavy mechanics of D&D. For D&D I just want the casters to have the same amount of power as anyone else of their level.

I think a risk-based spell system might work better than a per-day/per-encouter/at-will system.

In a risk-based system the wizard can always try something but has to really gauge how powerful of a spell they will risk casting vs other means of defeating a challenge.

 

[Nifft]

Yep. At least if the wizard is unprepared and the fighter manages to get close.

In the current system, whoever is prepared wins. And I certainly think that catching your opponent unaware should give a significant advantage. (This is how Wizards would kill Wizards -- trickery, not just raw power and an initiative roll.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[WhatGravitas]

It's pretty late in the game when wizards become unbeatable, i.e. after D&D's sweet spot. So, I hope it won't happen in 4E at all.

It's contingency for getting out of the mess, as soon as somebody touches you. 11th level is not late game.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Jhaelen]

11th level is not late game.

It is - for many campaigns

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

My personal preference would be:

A powerful sorcerer can call down a storm of elemental chaos that can destroy an army. A powerful witch can speak a curse that can blight the crops of an entire nation. A powerful summoner can call forth a godlike dragon whose beam-breath can annihilate a major city. A powerful wizard can literally rewrite the rules of reality to suit him.

And all of those things take so damned long, they're completely useless as anything but a plot device. Any bloke with three feet of pointy metal can come along and shove the business end down a powerful x's gullet at any point during his 48-hour ritual casting.

It's awesome when the BBEG is mere minutes from finishing an incantation capable of wiping out your entire country, and you have to fight your way through a tower full of the twisted products of his arcane artifice and the mad cultists slaved to his will. You as a PC spellcaster, if unconcerned about collateral damage, can probably pull off a similar level of awesome... provided, of course, you have a few hundred mooks to chump-block when someone else inevitably feels the gut-wrenching twist of the fabric of reality caused by the untold powers you are VERY SLOWLY gathering the necessary powers. In other words, don't hold your breath.

For actual day-to-day, PC-usable magic, I'd like to see it a bit weaker than your typical fighter's attacks. This is compensated for by the fact that a caster has more tactical options and has the ability to affect multiple targets more easily.

 

[Hairfoot]

I'm still happy with fighters being much stronger than mages in early levels, but being eclipsed by them later on. I particularaly like it from the storytelling point of view - the wimpy mage who needed protection from the warriors at the start of their career becomes the mighty weapon essential to the party when they take on the big nasties.