How powerful should magic be?

[Slife]

One thing I'm hoping we'll finally see in core is some sort of ritual magic ability to carry off the entire range of 'Call down a plague upon the land'-type magic.

There are a few things I've seen like the spell shown above. Arcana Unearthed has a tenth-level (levels in AU go up to 25) Exotic (meaning, you have to spend a feat just to learn that one spell) spell called Invoked Devestation: Range 1 mile/level line of sight, All in 100-foot/level radius take 10d6 points of damage/ round for 1 round/level, considered to be all elements and energy types and each person has to make a Reflex save every round. You can cast it once per year. That's your 'wipe this fortress off the map' spell.

Reminds me of this trick:
Instead of spending a single feat for a spell you can instead spend five feats to get:

Snowcasting,
Flash Frost Spell,
Energy Substitution (Electricity),
Born of Three Thunders,
and Explosive Spell

Learn "find the city", a first level spell with a radius of 10 miles/caster level.

Start by applying the Snowcasting metamagic feat to Locate City. It is now a 1st level Divination [Cold] spell.

Apply the Flash Frost Spell metamagic feat to the Snowcasting Locate City. It is now a 2nd level Divination [Cold] spell that deals 2 points of cold damage to everyone within the spell's area and leaves a coating of slick ice on all surfaces, as stated in the description of the Flash Frost Spell feat.

Apply the Energy Substitution (Electricity) metamagic feat to the Snowcasting Flash Frost Locate City. It is now a 2nd level Divination [Electricity] spell that deals 2 points of electricity damage to everyone within the spell's area and, oddly, still leaves the coating of ice.

Apply the Born of Three Thunders metamagic feat to the Snowcasting Flash Frost Energy Substituted Locate City. It is now a 2nd level Divination [Electricity, Sonic] spell that deals 1 point of electricity and 1 point of sonic damage to all within the spells area, leaves the coating of ice, and gives all creatures within the spell's area a Fortitude save to avoid being stunned and all creatures that fail their save a Reflex save to avoid being knocked prone; however, it leaves you dazed for 1 round after casting it.

Now you can apply the Explosive Spell metamagic feat to this mess. The Snowcasting Flash Frost Energy Substituted Born of Three Thunders Explosive Locate City is a 4th level Divination [Electricity, Sonic] spell that deals 1 point of electricity and 1 point of sonic damage to all within the spell's area, leaves the coating of ice, gives a Fortitude save to avoid being stunned, and a Reflex save to avoid being knocked prone if you fail the Fortitude save. If you fail the Reflex save, you are immediately ejected to the edge of the spell's area, taking 1d6 damage for every 10 feet you moved. This spell leaves you dazed for 1 round after casting it.

Now, this does give two saves, but...
Someone standing at the epicenter who fails takes 5,280d6 damage per caster level.

Of course, unless you're elsewhere, you'll take full damage.

This is your wipe a city off the map spell. Cast it twice. If the second casting fails, the first one succeeded.

 

[Gundark]

I want the game breaking spells gone. Even at high levels. I want to have a murder mystery without figuring out why the players just can't rez/speak to dead/ or whatever else is out there to the victim.

Case in point. I had this great story of a slain king with all the heirs dead. The PC's had to track down the illegitimate son to take the throne. Only one problem. I had previously had rezzing in the game. So I had to come up with a reason why they couldn't just raise the king and/or an heir, besides just saying "no you can't". It was annoying.


PS. The ability to destroy castles is insignificant next to the power of the force.

 

[Nifft]

I'm still happy with fighters being much stronger than mages in early levels, but being eclipsed by them later on. I particularaly like it from the storytelling point of view - the wimpy mage who needed protection from the warriors at the start of their career becomes the mighty weapon essential to the party when they take on the big nasties.

While that might work well from a narrative standpoint, it pretty much guarantees someone will suck at any given level. Not the sort of game I'd want to play through using the same character over many levels... I'd play a Fighter at lower levels, then he'd die near high levels and I'd roll up a Wizard.

Is that the dynamic you want to design around?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hairfoot]

Is that the dynamic you want to design around?

No, sucking wouldn't do, even though that's been the dynamic of earlier editions. The difference doesn't have to be huge, just present.

Personally, I like finding ways to make an underdog PC interesting or useful. I've never minded being a cleric healbot, for instance, or a fighter bodyguard for a high-ish level wizard. It doesn't suit everyone, but I like the depth it adds to playing the game.

 

[Nifft]

I've never minded being a cleric healbot, for instance, or a fighter bodyguard for a high-ish level wizard. It doesn't suit everyone, but I like the depth it adds to playing the game.

I've played a few Clerics, too, and done a lot of support work. The thing is, Clerics never suck! I tended to use my power to boost the rest of the party rather than to self-buff, but even so, I never ran out of cool things to do in combat.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Celebrim]

I've played a few Clerics, too, and done a lot of support work. The thing is, Clerics never suck! I tended to use my power to boost the rest of the party rather than to self-buff, but even so, I never ran out of cool things to do in combat.

No, they don't. Clerics rock.

My favored build for a cleric works on the principle, "Whatever else happens, I will be the last member of the party to go down." I try to make as unkillable of a character as possible, even if it means my damage output is so low that in a straight up fight, I'd lose. They tend to heal, buff, provide aid, and soak up attacks (sometimes deliberately drawing AoO), but they always have something to do - and often more than one thing demanding attention. In fact, often the hard part is figuring out what of thier many options is the best thing to do now. Everyone wants to stand by 'the medic'.

The logic of course is that everyone else, I can heal (or eventually raise). If I go down, I'm not so lucky (especially if I'm the only cleric). I've seen some cleric offensive combat monstrousities, and that's perfectly fine. But I've never felt that running a defensive build made me less important to the party.