D&D 5E How powerful would a Fighter subclass that added both STR and DEX to damage be?

Having both STR and DEX really high is the "less optimal" choice as those 2 ability scores overlap on attack and damage, so I thought of what if there's a subclass of fighter that uses both of those. Obviously adding the 2 ability mods to attack bonus on all attacks would be too much, as it would break bounded accuracy. But having both of those apply to damage rolls on all attacks wouldn't.

I feel that if there was such a subclass, it would likely be lacking in other areas like Hit Points and so on, as getting to 20 DEX and 20 STR to have +10 to damage would come at the cost of having a high CON score. Even if they get less maxed out DEX and STR scores, would having +6 to +8 to damage over +4 to +5 with other fighters, be too much?
 

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The Rune Knight (I think) gets the biggest raw damage boost at +3.5, once per turn, two minutes a day. This would likely be +3 every time until 8th level, when it starts going up.

It's a lot of damage. Even if you somehow ban rolled stats for this subclass, you're still a fighter so getting both to 20 can happen at level 12.
 

cbwjm

Legend
I don't think the damage boost would be so great as to make it the best choice. If you recall the brute subclass that got panned, its damage was apparently comparable to other fighter subclasses of the time according to Mike Mearls, it was the perception of the additional damage that the brute was dealing that people found off-putting.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Having both STR and DEX really high is the "less optimal" choice as those 2 ability scores overlap on attack and damage, so I thought of what if there's a subclass of fighter that uses both of those. Obviously adding the 2 ability mods to attack bonus on all attacks would be too much, as it would break bounded accuracy. But having both of those apply to damage rolls on all attacks wouldn't.

I feel that if there was such a subclass, it would likely be lacking in other areas like Hit Points and so on, as getting to 20 DEX and 20 STR to have +10 to damage would come at the cost of having a high CON score. Even if they get less maxed out DEX and STR scores, would having +6 to +8 to damage over +4 to +5 with other fighters, be too much?

I'd do something like this:
- When you have advantage on attack roll, you can sacrifice the extra d20 to add your Dex to damage.
or
- When you roll with advantage, if both d20s would hit the target, you add Dex to damage.

Or something closer to the rogue's Aim action (just as an example of double mods to damage):
- Clout: As a bonus action, you enter a stance where you put all your weight behind every attack until the start of your next turn; you get to add your CON mod to your damage roll. You can use this bonus action only if you haven't moved during this turn, and after you use the bonus action, your speed is 0 until the end of the current turn.
 

ECMO3

Hero
Having both STR and DEX really high is the "less optimal" choice as those 2 ability scores overlap on attack and damage, so I thought of what if there's a subclass of fighter that uses both of those. Obviously adding the 2 ability mods to attack bonus on all attacks would be too much, as it would break bounded accuracy. But having both of those apply to damage rolls on all attacks wouldn't.

I feel that if there was such a subclass, it would likely be lacking in other areas like Hit Points and so on, as getting to 20 DEX and 20 STR to have +10 to damage would come at the cost of having a high CON score. Even if they get less maxed out DEX and STR scores, would having +6 to +8 to damage over +4 to +5 with other fighters, be too much?
I actually think this makes the most sense as a fighting style, and corresponding to either melee or ranged weapons but not both.

Here are two example fighting styles:

Agile Fighting: You can add your dexterity bonus to damage with melee weapon attacks made using strength

Powerful Missile: You can add your strength bonus to damage with ranged weapon attacks made using dexterity.

You could get more damage out of these than you would with other fighting styles, but as you noted it would require a large investment in both strength and dexterity to make work.
 

As a subclass concept, I guess in some ways it would be the "slayer", I think there was a 4e essentials subclass that added dexterity to fighter attacks that were also using strength. And the Pathfinder class, that was basically a Fighter/Rogue hybrid.

If the extra damage is too much then limiting conditions could be applied like "must be in no, light or medium armor" with something like the Pathfinder Slayer's Studied Target ability.
 

beartificer

Villager
Something to keep in mind is that Blade pact Warlocks already get to add two stats to damage with Lifedrinker.

Honestly, I think this would be balanced as a fighting style that buffs a character type that is very prevalent in media but that doesn't really have a corresponding fighting style in 5e - the light/medium armor wearer who fights using a longsword/battleaxe in one or two hands; so, Aragorn basically.

Versatile Fighting
As long as you're wielding a weapon with the versatile property and no other weapons, you gain a bonus to your damage rolls with that weapon equal to the lower of your strength or dexterity ability modifier.

This is a little busted if you're a monk and are also wearing Gauntlets of Ogre power, otherwise it's mostly Dueling that applies to 2handing a Longsword/Battleaxe/Shield. You might need to make it so it doesn't work while you're using a shield, but I'm not fully convinced of that.
 


DND_Reborn

Legend
Having both STR and DEX really high is the "less optimal" choice as those 2 ability scores overlap on attack and damage, so I thought of what if there's a subclass of fighter that uses both of those. Obviously adding the 2 ability mods to attack bonus on all attacks would be too much, as it would break bounded accuracy. But having both of those apply to damage rolls on all attacks wouldn't.

I feel that if there was such a subclass, it would likely be lacking in other areas like Hit Points and so on, as getting to 20 DEX and 20 STR to have +10 to damage would come at the cost of having a high CON score. Even if they get less maxed out DEX and STR scores, would having +6 to +8 to damage over +4 to +5 with other fighters, be too much?
A big missing part of your premise is that you aren't rolling for ability scores. In the first 5E game I ran, our half-orc Fighter/Rogue began with STR 18 and DEX 17, and CON 16 IIRC, because he rolled well and put his racial ASIs in STR and CON. FWIW, by the end he had STR 20, DEX 20, CON 18, INT 14, WIS 14, and CHA 13 (he bumped WIS +1, but that's it, because his initial rolls were SO GOOD!).

Even with point-buy or standard array, you can begin with 16/15/14 after ASIs in STR/DEX/CON, so you are getting better damage and not really losing much in HP IMO. Such a subclass would also have great AC due to either heavy armor or high DEX.

I would be very cautious about such an approach, personally.
 



If the goal is simply to make a fighter who uses both Dex and Str-based weapons (say, the old AD&D fighter with greatsword and longbow), why not this:
"Aptly-named Subclass ability(level 3): when you spend an ASI to raise Strength or Dexterity by 2 points, it instead raises both of them by 2 points"
So if you assigned points to start with 16 in both, you can be maxed at L6 (and can spend the rest of your ASIs on both Sharpshooter and GWM, etc). If you were more like Str 16/Dex 10, well then your Dex gets up to a respectable 14 (decent enough for a fallback weapon) by the time you max Str.
 

If the goal is simply to make a fighter who uses both Dex and Str-based weapons (say, the old AD&D fighter with greatsword and longbow), why not this:
It isn't, and the weapons, which I'm thinking about can be any melee weapon whether it be a Greatsword or a Rapier. It's about giving something to those who are both strong and dextrous.
 

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