D&D (2024) How should multiclassing be implemented for ODnD?

[CreamCloud0]

I like the ‘half classes’ approach with supplementary feats

Your basic power budget has four ‘slots’ but each full class is only worth 3/4 of that and is divided up into distinct thirds, so to fill out that last chunk of power budget you can either take chunks from another class or a prestige class which is designed to fit in that last 1/4 class power budget but is a distinct whole thematic package.

Class dipping (wizard 3/3, cleric 1/3)
Balance multiclass (wizard 2/3, cleric 2/3)
Or Prestige class (wizard 3/3, archmage 1/1)

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I like the ‘half classes’ approach with supplementary feats

Your basic power budget has four ‘slots’ but each full class is only worth 3/4 of that and is divided up into distinct thirds, so to fill out that last chunk of power budget you can either take chunks from another class or a prestige class which is designed to fit in that last 1/4 class power budget but is a distinct whole thematic package.

Class dipping (wizard 3/3, cleric 1/3)
Balance multiclass (wizard 2/3, cleric 2/3)
Or Prestige class (wizard 3/3, archmage 1/1)

All those solutions are a bit too complicated to implement.
As an alternate to 3.x style multiclass I would have liked to forfeit subclasses in favour of adding the base of a different class at slower rate.
And then being able to use feats to either enhance the first class, enhance the second or even add a 3rd.

 

[Corinnguard]

In Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition, multiclassing is dealt with in much the same way as 5e. But unlike 5e, it tries to encourage multiclassing by providing an unique trio of feats called Synergy Feats. These feats come only into play when someone multiclasses.

Currently A5e has Synergy Feats for these multiclass combos:

1. BLADECHANTER​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in fighter, 3 levels in wizard, Fighting Style (Two-Weapon Fighting)

2. ELDRITCH ARCHER​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in fighter, 3 levels in wizard, Fighting Style (Archery)

3. MYSTIC ARCANIST​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in cleric, 3 levels in sorcerer

4. NIGHTSTALKER​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in adept, 3 levels in rogue

5. PROCLAIMER​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in bard, 3 levels in herald

6. SHADOWDANCER​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in rogue, 3 levels in warlock

7. UNTAMED​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in berserker, 3 levels in druid (Skinchanger archetype)

8. VIGILANTE​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in adept, 3 levels in ranger

These are the first of the three synergy feats for each multiclass combo presented here. Feats in A5e like 5e are optional, you have to select them in place of an ASI. So the earliest you can take the starter feat is about 7th-level when one of the two classes in the multiclass combo reaches 7th level. When the other class in the multiclass combo reaches it's 4th-level (8th-level overall), you can then get the second synergy feat. The third and final feat can be acquired when one of the classes in the combo reaches 12th or 13th level.

The synergy feats are interesting, but they run right into the same problem feats have in 5e. Choosing between an ASI or a Feat. And not every one likes feat trees. Lastly, you still have to pick which subclass you want for each class in the combo.

Hopefully with feats in 1D&D no longer being optional and being more level-based, these synergy feats can really shine.

 

[Corinnguard]

Here is what one of the Synergy feat trees for A5e looks like:​

​

BLADECHANTER​

Prerequisites: 3 levels in fighter, 3 levels in wizard, Fighting Style (Two-Weapon Fighting)

Bladechanting is the art of unifying and maintaining intense physical and intellectual strains, allowing movement and thought to become one as a beautiful and deadly dance of blades.

If you wield a melee weapon in each hand, you may use them to perform seen spell components and as a spellcasting focus for wizard spells. In addition, whenever you are concentrating on a spell while using melee weapons as a spellcasting focus in this way, you enter a special trance-like state called bladechanting. If you lose concentration on your spell while bladechanting, you also stop bladechanting. While bladechanting you gain the following benefits:

• While you are wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor, you gain a bonus to your Armor Class equal to your Intelligence modifier.
• Whenever you would need to make a concentration check to maintain a spell due to taking damage, you may spend 2 exertion to automatically succeed.
• When you hit a target with a melee weapon attack, you can use your reaction and choose a spell of 1st-level or higher, casting it through your weapon. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and target a single creature or have a range of Touch. If a spell cast in this way requires an attack roll and targets the same target as the triggering melee weapon attack, it also hits as part of that attack. You may choose not to deal damage with a melee weapon attack used to cast a spell.

WHIRLING INCANTOR​

Prerequisites: Bladechanter feat

You train to move by thought and incant with your body’s flowing motion, becoming nearly unassailable as you whirl and dance, escaping fatal blows and seamlessly blending the lines between mind and body. While bladechanting you gain the following additional benefits:

• Your Speed increases by 10 feet.
• You gain a bonus to Dexterity checks and saving throws equal to your Intelligence modifier.
• You gain a bonus to Intelligence checks and saving throws equal to your Dexterity modifier.
• When you are targeted by an attack but before the attack is rolled, you may expend a spell slot to attempt a whirling arcane evasion. If you do, make a Dexterity saving throw and add a +2 bonus for every spell slot level above 1st spent this way. If this Dexterity saving throw exceeds the triggering attack roll the attack becomes a miss, and you may immediately move up to 10 feet in any direction. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

ELDRITCH WHIRLWIND MASTER​

Prerequisites: Whirling Incantor feat

With a blade’s sweep you pull and spin the arcane power, surrounding yourself in a cyclone of arcane energy as your spell's power tries to match the speed of your sword.

Whenever you use your reaction to cast a spell through a melee weapon attack using bladechanting, you may choose up to a number of additional targets for that spell equal to the spell level of the spell slot used to cast it. These additional targets must all be within 10 feet of you and are each treated as if they were the spell’s original target.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Problem with synergy feats in A5E is that they are too specific.
For 5e, I'd rather have them more open, like
prerequisisite: martial weapon proficiency and spellcasting ability.
The nice thing is that it can also be a feat to improve the eldritch knight (if it is still a thing in A*DnD).

 

[Corinnguard]

Problem with synergy feats in A5E is that they are too specific.
For 5e, I'd rather have them more open, like
prerequisisite: martial weapon proficiency and spellcasting ability.
The nice thing is that it can also be a feat to improve the eldritch knight (if it is still a thing in A*DnD).

I have to agree with you here. The synergy feats in A5e are too specific when it comes to what classes act as prerequisites for them.

You can use these A5e feats with the 5e subclasses such as the Eldritch Knight. It's just a matter of finding a Wizard subclass that works well with it and the synergy feats.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I think fiddly stuff like feats and skills goes against the whole point of having a class system, but nothing is as bad as the current 3e-style dipping-flavored multiclassing...

Subclasses would be the cleanest way to handle wanting to veer outside your class. But you really should be able to pick one right away - the 3rd level limit is there just because of the multiclassing.

 

[gorice]

Subclasses would be the cleanest way to handle wanting to veer outside your class.

This is what gets me about multiclassing in 5e. When you already have various ways of being a sneaky person who does magic, or a fighty person who does magic, why do you need to create the option for a fighter/thief or a a fighter/wizard?

That's an honest question. I feel like these discussions about the changes people want in D&D are often driven by conflicting, or simply incommesurable, motivations. Is multiclassing needed because subclasses don't offer people the thematic flexibility they want? Or is it just a cool mechanical trick?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Subclasses would be the cleanest way to handle wanting to veer outside your class. But you really should be able to pick one right away - the 3rd level limit is there just because of the multiclassing.

I don't think this is right.
I think it was there to not overwhelm players with too many choices at level 1.

 

[Laurefindel]

5e-style multiclassing is my favourite of all editions. Not as munchkin-y as 2e, less convoluted than 3e, and I’m not a fan of 4e or PF2 multiclassing by feat or swapped abilities; it goes against the principle of character classes in the first place.

In the present setup, multiclassing is a significant choice. It is neither necessary nor debilitating. It allows you do do things at the cost of having to wait for others. As it should IMO.

There are a handful of required fixes such as EB + AB, but they are relatively minor. Overall, I don’t thing it needs to change.