D&D (2024) How should multiclassing be implemented for ODnD?

[Lanefan]

I'd prefer hybrid multiclassing, because it would feel more like 2e multiclassing, though I definitely don't want to go back to the split XP progression.

The split xp progression is exactly what I'd want, as it then allows players to determine how much emphasis is to be put on each class by varying the % of xp that goes to each one. I'd also like to do away with additive levels and have the two classes function independently as per attack bonus, saving throws, etc., such that a Cleric-5/Fighter-3 fights like a 3rd and casts like a 5th and saves as whichever of those classes gives the better save in that situation and is in no way an 8th at anything.

There's a big difference between a character who puts 75% of xp into Fighter and 25% into Rogue and a character who puts 75% into Rogue and just 25% into Fighter. The first is mostly a warrior who wants to do some sneaking and trapfinding on the side, the other is mostly a sneak who wants to augment her fighting skills. The expectation is that a character is played roughly in line with its xp division. The xp division can only be changed between adventures and is otherwise locked in.

In no case, however, should a multiclass character ever be more powerful than a single-class character of the same (highest) level.

And yeah, as none of this is even remotely backwards-compatible I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

I'm not a fan of those ridiculous multi-classing for various level dips builds of characters.

One way to put a hard stop to a lot of this is to allow any character to only ever have two classes, tops.

@roger semerad - the biggest problem with feat-based multiclassing is that it even further bakes feats (which are/were in theory just an option) into the game; hardly a solution for those who don't want them.

 

[Haplo781]

The split xp progression is exactly what I'd want, as it then allows players to determine how much emphasis is to be put on each class by varying the % of xp that goes to each one. I'd also like to do away with additive levels and have the two classes function independently as per attack bonus, saving throws, etc., such that a Cleric-5/Fighter-3 fights like a 3rd and casts like a 5th and saves as whichever of those classes gives the better save in that situation and is in no way an 8th at anything.

There's a big difference between a character who puts 75% of xp into Fighter and 25% into Rogue and a character who puts 75% into Rogue and just 25% into Fighter. The first is mostly a warrior who wants to do some sneaking and trapfinding on the side, the other is mostly a sneak who wants to augment her fighting skills. The expectation is that a character is played roughly in line with its xp division. The xp division can only be changed between adventures and is otherwise locked in.

In no case, however, should a multiclass character ever be more powerful than a single-class character of the same (highest) level.

And yeah, as none of this is even remotely backwards-compatible I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

One way to put a hard stop to a lot of this is to allow any character to only ever have two classes, tops.

@roger semerad - the biggest problem with feat-based multiclassing is that it even further bakes feats (which are/were in theory just an option) into the game; hardly a solution for those who don't want them.

Feats have only ever been optional in theory. They're used at most tables and they're going core in 1DD.

If you don't want them you're going to be squarely in house rule territory going forward.

 

[Vael]

I strongly dislike 3.5 and 5e style level-based multiclassing, so a 4e-esque approach of a combination of feats and hybrid classes sounds like a better option, but I'm well aware of how fiddly hybrid classes were.

 

[the Jester]

So overall multiclassing in 5e is pretty full of issues, and overall feels like it was created in the last two hours on a Friday afternoon before the edition went to print. It messes up tiers of play, it messes up ability score progression, it doesn't function with martial extra attacks (but does with adding caster spell slots together?) Most multiclass options are poor at best, or actively character crippling at worst. And then there is the odd few which are powergamer heaven, and just result in munchkins rolling up palasorcerlocks every game.

Hard disagree on every level. I think it works pretty darn well, and have both run and played multiclassed pcs at all levels up to the mid-teens.

Also, backwards compatibility is very important.

I have no problem with adding more 'multiclass lite' feats that give access to limited class abilities.

 

[Krachek]

As it is now, a variant rule.
I prefer much more the various feat that give multi class flavor.

 

[jasper]

I like multiclassing as is.

 

[roger semerad]

5E wasn't built with the same ...umm... precision of class features as 4E, so feats just swapping features, or "half-class" lists really can't work the same way.

That said, I'm fine with 5E's approach. I think the addition of class-independent Proficiency Bonus was brilliant, and spell-casting slot stacking and cantrips scaling by character level and not class help prevent a lot of "trap" choices for players who want to mix things up.

I think there might be a little tweaking not to the multi-class mechanic itself, but to some classes and the way they interact with multi-classing.

It would definitely not be an easy task, but the concept of a half-class is pretty straight forward. Like I said it would just need a decent amount of playtesting to get it right. You'd have to go through each class abilities one by one and figure out if they need to be delayed, limited, nerfed, removed, or maybe even given out at the same level. Action Surge for the Fighter would be one ability I personally think is too powerful for a half-class. So I'd remove it from the half-class entry, or maybe delay it until 20th level to act as a capstone for it. Meanwhile I'd probably keep the first extra attack at 5th level and delay the third and fourth a couple of levels. For a full spellcaster I'd start playtesting it with about 3/4 of a full caster for spell slot devolopement, but halve spell slots per day( round down with the minimum of one ). Your caster level will be your character level. A 20th level fighter/wizard would have the following spell slots - 2 cantrips, 2 lv.1, 1 lv.2-8. While a 20th cleric/wizard would have - 5 cantrips, 4 lv.1, 3 lv.2-4, 2 lv. 5, 1 lv. 6-8. Half-classes also don't get any subclass features, those would be reserved for full classes.

These ideas are just where to start the playtesting with, some class abilities might need a heavier or lighter hand. No way to really know without playtesting.

The split xp progression is exactly what I'd want, as it then allows players to determine how much emphasis is to be put on each class by varying the % of xp that goes to each one. I'd also like to do away with additive levels and have the two classes function independently as per attack bonus, saving throws, etc., such that a Cleric-5/Fighter-3 fights like a 3rd and casts like a 5th and saves as whichever of those classes gives the better save in that situation and is in no way an 8th at anything.

There's a big difference between a character who puts 75% of xp into Fighter and 25% into Rogue and a character who puts 75% into Rogue and just 25% into Fighter. The first is mostly a warrior who wants to do some sneaking and trapfinding on the side, the other is mostly a sneak who wants to augment her fighting skills. The expectation is that a character is played roughly in line with its xp division. The xp division can only be changed between adventures and is otherwise locked in.

In no case, however, should a multiclass character ever be more powerful than a single-class character of the same (highest) level.

And yeah, as none of this is even remotely backwards-compatible I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

One way to put a hard stop to a lot of this is to allow any character to only ever have two classes, tops.

@roger semerad - the biggest problem with feat-based multiclassing is that it even further bakes feats (which are/were in theory just an option) into the game; hardly a solution for those who don't want them.

One big problem with the experience point based ideas is that a growing number of tables no longer use them. That makes them a bit of a non starter I think.

About the feats, I don't think they'd work in 5th. I did say so in my first post. My way of using the feat concept was to have the multi-class replace the subclass choice for a character. Basically use the half-class concept but cut them down even further to be roughly equal to a subclass in power. Then when a Fighter gets to level 3 he could chose champion, eldritch knight, or multi-class as a wizard. In this specific example the Fighter/sub-class Wizard would be very similar to the Eldritch Knight, but still different. The Eldritch Knight focuses on combining spells and attacks in a single action, while the Fighter/sub-class Wizard has better spell selection. The sub-class Wizard would also be generic and could be chosen by any class that doesn't already have a similar sub-class. This accomplishes the same basic idea of the feat based multi in 4th. A way to multi-class without giving up any of your main class abilities.

To be clear, both of these ideas aren't something I'd expect in the One D&D main books. One D&D has made it clear that there would be no massive changes coming. These are the kind of options I'd like to see worked on a couple of years into the One launch.

 

[Raith5]

The only changes Id like to see is to make multi class martials levels stack for the extra attack and to make feats/ASI available at character level rather than class level.

 

[Horwath]

Dual classing.


you can only have 2 classes.

classes must be within one level of each other, that is, 3rd level is your last chance to take a level in 2nd class.
multiclass rules for proficiency as normal.

at levels 5,8,11,14,17 and 20 you get class features of both classes, but HPs and HDs of only one class.
at levels 5,11,17 you get lower HP and higher HD and at levels 8,14 and 20 you get higher HPs and lower HD.

I.E. Fighter/wizard 5 would have class levels of 3rd level fighter and 3rd level wizard.
if fighter was 1st level class, then HPs would be 10+6(for two levels of fighter) and 4+4+4(for 3 levels of wizard) and character would have 3d10 HDs and 2d6 HDs.

at 8th level character would be 5/5 split with HPs of 4th level fighter and 4th level wizard with 4d10 and 4d6 HDs

...

up to 20th level where character would be 13/13 split with HPs of 10th level fighter and 10th level wizard with 10d10 and 10d6 HDs.

 

[Shiroiken]

Trying to shoehorn in a system from a prior edition just isn't going to work. The gestalt system of AD&D, custom leveling of 3E, and feat system of 4E just aren't going to provide the right feel in a game outside of their original systems.
I've always felt the best way to "multiclass" in 5E is via the subclass system. For example, a Fighter/Rogue would be either a scout subclass of fighter or a thug subclass of rogue, giving a bit of the other class to the main class.