How Should Specialist Wizards be handled?

[steeldragons]

I've played around a lot with specialist schools, homebrewing-ruling them for my own world.

i agree with the comments that the "specialist wizards" need a bit of re-tuning and some definite flavor development. The 1e Illusionist seems to be the most commonly pointed to example...which then, yes, does demand each "specialist" needs his own spell list...and I concur, their own set of special abilities dealign with their special flavor.

My understanding of the 5e breakdown of "Themes", while seems an obvious choice seems to be leaning more toward "skills" and "background" type stuff, not really additional "class" types powers. So, taking that out of the mix, then leaves them to be "classes" or "sub-classes" in their own right.

I do sympathsize with @JRRNeiklot 's idea that, if you want an Illusionist, just choose illusion spells. Want a Necromancer? Choose necromantic spells. Makes sense and would be the easiest/cleanest solution...at least until they come out with the 5e Complete Mages every possible option module, if they ever get to that.

But, it seems, many people want everything spelled out for them. Some people just prefer to have RAW to tell them what to do...or give them as many parameters as possible.

I also concur that the traditional "Eight Schools of Magic" could be seriously pared down and the specialists infused with more flavor focus and additional "abilities" beyond their choice of spells.

So, going with that, here's what I'm thinking...

Divination and Abjuration. Two of the "weakest" specialities for adventuring/being in the field but so uber-useful and necessary to any mage. What wizard can't "detect" the presence of magic or know, at least the arcana-physical theories, of how to counteract/defend themselves from magic...at least in some small way?

They are, however, among the most useful for NPCs. Every king wants a diviner on retainer. A resident mage who can defend the castle against magical influence/intrusion and deal with "the unseen" is much more useful than one who can throw fireballs during a siege...they have scores of soldiers for that.

Throw in a few minor illusory tricks for some entertainment and you have the perfect "court wizard."

Throw in a slight "religious" or "scholastic" flavor and you have a very useful NPC Diviner's Guild or Academy of Knowledge or what have you for the PCs to utilize (and pay/donate to, of course

For PCs, Div. & Abj. get combined and strewn throughout all specialties (at least for "minor" way, which I always defined as 3rd level or lower spells) as makes sense. Dt. Illusion for Illusionists, Dt. Undead for Necro's, Dt. Charm for the Enchanters, etc.

Let's face it, noone is going to play a Diviner or Abjurist. I know, I tried. Great/cool character concept, but just not particularly useful in actual play. Leave those "specialists" to the realm of NPCs...but don't really define them as "separate specialist classes." Just a flavor thing. These guys n' gals "know stuff" better than anybody...and they can protect themselves as the day is long...long as there's someone else around to actually fight off their assailant before their magic runs out.

But everyone trained in the "Art/Craft/Mysteries/Arcane/Occult/however you want to fluff it" can "Detect [general/-ic] Magic" to some degree. "Read Magic", if that's still in the game (I long ago houseruled that to be an automatic NON-magical ability of mages). Everyone can cast a "Protection from Evil" (personal or perhaps circle or use protective talismans/cloaks/rings/etc.) to greater or lesser effect. Even/topping out with "Dispel Magic". Finding magic and defending oneself from it are, like, the first two things any mage would learn!

Illusion and Enchantment really, more or less get lumped in together. If you want an illusionist, focus on the more visual type spells, if you want a beguiling enchantress, focus on the more mind-altery/emotion based stuff. But they come in the same arcane "package" as it were.

The Illusionist and/or Enchanter mage, obviously, is just what you call yourself, however you want to fluff/focus your character. They are the masters of the mind****, entertainment, maybe mysterious, devious and/or conniving (perhaps), controlling light and color and shadow and emotion, the "figments", the "intangibles" to various effect.

Suitable "abilities" would be things like a resistance/immunity to phantasmal magic (recognizing/disbelieving illusions, probably starting small and scaling-increasing with level), non-magical sleight-of-hand, and some kind of non-magical interactive (CHA-based, if you like) bonus for recognizing/utilizing one's seductive wiles, entertaining bravado, etc...

Evocation and Transmutation get lumped together. The generation and control of raw energies/building blocks of matter and then the alteration of those blocks into other things.

Call your self a "blaster" mage, Evoker. Call yourself a "Transmuter" (if you must, but I never liked that one). But you are dealing in the harnessing, directing and (most of all) controlling the manifestations of energy and manipulation of matter, the "tangible" effects at your fingertips.

If you like being a "Fire mage", seek out, study, focus on Fire based spells. If you want to be an "Elementalist" then study them all! If you want to be Circe, altering your own shape and/or appearance and polymorphs are your friend.

Abilties that come to mind are a resistance to energy forms (perhaps one to start and increasing types and effectiveness with level, double your bonus if you limit the kinds of energy, perhaps?), an inherent "sense" (chance to detect) items, creatures, places that have been magically altered ("No really" ribbits the frog, "I am the princess!") and increased control (add damage but lessen area of effect, or versa vie type stuff) of their spell "output" as it were (increasing over time/with level, naturally).

And Necromancy and Conjuration come together in a similar manner. Your masters of the undead, your manipulators of/feeders on life energy, your studious scholar trying to comprehend the limits and relations of life and death and (perhaps) how to interchange the two?, your demonologists, diabolists, "higher minded higher planes" devotee.

Delving into the unknown realms of death can definitely bring one into contact with entities of diverse purpose (from wraiths and spectres to balors and pit fiends to devas and solars). Knowing how to deal with, control and protect yourself from such creatures is a necessity of the discipline.

Now, one could certainly make the case that Conjuration and Transmutation (calling into being energies, items, creatures and/or then being able to manipulate/change them) also makes sense. As much as Evoker/Necromancer go together, generating and controlling pure energies...including those of life and death if the caster so dares.

It could go a few ways, but at least this way, we need not catalogue and define 8 different kinds of mages and 8 different spell lists and 8 different sets of added expertise/abilities.

So...um...where was I on the topic of this thread? Ah yes, the specialist mages/schools should be pruned a bit and then solid archetypal "sub-classes" individually fluffed and added to the class list. Obviously, they are not necessary in the "basic/beinnger/core" book, unless, like 1e, you want to include ONE of them (I vote Illusionist!) and save the rest of additional/optional "Magic-users" module.

--Steel Dragons

 

[Falling Icicle]

I'd like to see something like talent trees that focus on the various schools. A "specialist wizard" would simply be someone who took alot of talents and learned alot of spells from a particular school as opposed to choosing a wider variety of things. It really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

 

[Li Shenron]

I would definitely prefer that each specialist got to choose some unique options or abilities from a small set, including possibly some boost to spells of his specialization. More spells per day is ok but bland.

One thing that I don't think it's every been tried in "official" D&D is having some cool spells restricted to specialist of the appropriate school.

I am not a fan instead of the concept of banned school. It makes little sense to me to completely forbid entire schools, and in 3ed the choice of barred school was more relevant than the choice of preferred school, total nonsense... In fact whenever I want to play a "specialist" in 3ed, I always choose to be a generalist, and I just pick more spells of my focus school.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Even if it's a supplementary Pathfinder class, the Summoner made a good example of a Conjuration specialist, even if the mechanics behind the Eidolon Companion is way too complex.

I can't remember the name of the prestige class in Complete Mage, but there was a more fighterish one that I remember required being a Abjuration Specialist. So in my mind, an Abjurer should be like that prestige class. I see an Abjurer as being a Wizard with heavy armour, and various runes of protection written all over its full-plate armour. Maybe it has better weapon proficiencies because it lacks many offensive spells, but for the most part it's strength lies in really high defenses, and with a high number of defensive spells it could be what 4e describes as a defender, but a more passive one. And maybe with protective rune at-will spells, it could certainly fill that role.

The Bard build with wisdom as the secondary ability score, might have some places to start with for what path a Diviner could take. I think like the Abjurer idea, it should probably have access to a bunch of special at-will spells that offer bonuses to themselves and companions. Though one problem I see with there even being a Divination school, is that many of the spells that were traditionally Divination spells all became Rituals in 4e, and since rituals are here to stay, it probably reduces the number of in combat spells for their specialty.

 

[marleykat]

This would never happen but I think they should do something like some other games keep the specialist with excluded schools and/or double cost schools like Pathfinder. Then put the Generalist on slower advance track both with experience and spell aqusistion.

 

[Mattachine]

Just because of school of magic can be made into a specialty, doesn't mean it makes for a good PC class.

I hope 5e doesn't worry about statting out every option, even if it doesn't really make sense for adventurers.

 

[steeldragons]

I say, if you're going to bother having specialist arcane schools, then you define them.

No more of this "exclude what you" nonsense.

You want to be a "specialist" of this sort of magic, then you sacrifice these other kinds.

My own homebrewed way of doing allows for access to all schools of 2 kinds, "minor" (3rd or less level spells) access to other/periphary schools, and other schools are comPLEtEly outside your realm/comprehension.

For example...and just example, eh? Please don't lecture me on how things in magic "should" work. Also, going off of total memory here, so don't quote me on this....Please and thank you.

Necromancer: Any spell of the Necromancy or Conjuration schools, "Minor" (3rd level or less) to Divination, Abjuration and Evocation.

Throw your fireballs. Dispel other mages effects. But don't expect to be able to "Chain Lightning" or "Globe of Invulnerability".

"Charm Undead", yeah, that's an "enchantment" spell that speaks directly to the Necromancer's specialty (in the case of the homevrew, it's more like "Control Undead" but, yeah). They get that. "Charm Person" or "Charm Monster", no.

Or course, my homebrew also allows for things like: All cantrips, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Wish (eventually) and such that are simple too general or valuable (to any mage) or things that the wizard learned before specializing, to exclude.

But that's it!

If you're going to have the specialist, presented as a class (and I am assuming they will be presented as their own classes), then SPECIALIZE them.

It is also, a GREAT incentive, for the "general" mage being/becoming the default.

--SD

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think that the specialist should work like the 4e mage.

Not giving up the ability to use a certain school but instead getting a bonus when using spells of the specialised school.

I prefer to build upwards.

there could be a ability that generalist could get that shows the versatility of the generalist.

I was going to say the same thing. I particularly liked the way that the Mage had a primary specialty and a secondary specialty, giving a very wide range of possible specialists.

I really hope that if specialists are in 5e that they follow this model

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

One thing that I don't think it's every been tried in "official" D&D is having some cool spells restricted to specialist of the appropriate school.

Look at the 1e illusionist - he has a whole host of spells which are unique to him. I was rather sad when his unique spells got rolled into the general list (was that in 2e?)

Cheers

 

[steeldragons]

Look at the 1e illusionist - he has a whole host of spells which are unique to him. I was rather sad when his unique spells got rolled into the general list (was that in 2e?)

Cheers

Thanks for saving me the post.

And his spells took up less than a half page (in list form)!

But yes, I believe 2e introduced all arcane spells together...notated by school.

Unearthed Arcana (the 1e one, I mean) had notations of spell types/schools in the spell descriptions. But the break up of/into "specialist" schools didn't exist, as classes, until 2e...as far as I recall. Don't have my 1e UA in front of me at the moment.

Sorry I can't XP you til I spread it around...but just the same, thanks for saving me THAT post.

--SD