How to apply metamagics without increasing spell level?

[Grog]

If I want to apply multiple metamagic feats to the same spell without increasing its level (for example, Empower and Maximize a Fireball), is there a way to do this? Metamagic rods won't work, because you can only use one at a time...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

If I want to apply multiple metamagic feats to the same spell without increasing its level (for example, Empower and Maximize a Fireball), is there a way to do this? Metamagic rods won't work, because you can only use one at a time...

There are three ways I know of:

1.: Be a Wu jen. This oriental brand of wizards gets "spell secrets" where they can apply one metamagic feat (that increases the spell level by 1) to one of their spells. This spell now always has the benefits of that metamagic feat and will use the normal slot, unchanged by the metamagic in question.

2.: Be epic. There are Epic Feats named Automatic (Silent, Still, or Quicken) Spell (others could also be created). Upon taking them, you can apply the respecitve metamagic feat automatically to all our 0-3rd-level spells, without increasing the spell slot or casting time (this allows sorcerers to quicken spells). Taking the feat a second time raises the limit to 6th-level spells, a third time to 9th-level spells.

3.: Be a deity. There's a salient divine ability that essentially works like the epic feat above, except that you can freely choose the metamagic feat in question and it applies to all your spells (so it is pracitcally the three feats above rolled into one).

Beyond that, there are no ways to accomplish what you want, nor should there be.

 

[Darklone]

There are several prestige classes with a similar ability.

 

[Malicene]

Go to the Outer Planes, some gives you metafeat for free

exm Mechanus gives you maximize for free ! Beware Modron's Priest !

 

[Grog]

Beyond that, there are no ways to accomplish what you want, nor should there be.

I'm talking just 3.5 core rules here. I saw someone in an arena put 3 metamagic feats on an 8th level spell and still cast it as an 8th level spell, using just the 3.5 PH, DMG, and MM. (I'm not part of this game, btw, I'm just curious as to how he did it).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'm talking just 3.5 core rules here. I saw someone in an arena put 3 metamagic feats on an 8th level spell and still cast it as an 8th level spell, using just the 3.5 PH, DMG, and MM. (I'm not part of this game, btw, I'm just curious as to how he did it).

Seems like he cheated, or they have some weird house rules. Was it online? Do you have a link?

 

[Henry]

What race was their character?

Unless he was playing a dragon (quicken spell-like ability, and that doesn't apply to spells), there is NO way in the 3.5 core books to cast a thrice-metamigicked spell without cheating...

 

[Grog]

Seems like he cheated, or they have some weird house rules. Was it online? Do you have a link?

It was over at RPOL somewhere.... Proving Grounds, I think.

 

[wraith8]

It was over at RPOL somewhere.... Proving Grounds, I think.

You talking about Ramus??

I have no clue how he does it but i know the Arbitrator over there personally and he says it isn't against the rules.....


Not that it matters vs. Variel.....

 

[The Souljourner]

Well, let's see... you can do one with the rod... then if you are an archmage or heirophant you can turn a spell into a spell-like abilitym, and take empower spell-like ability, then you can apply one normal metamagic feat to increase it to 9th (assuming you can use the rod and the feat on a spell-like ability.... I'm not sure you can).

Still, it takes some work.

-The Souljourner