How to apply metamagics without increasing spell level?

[Gez]

Well... When Unearthed Arcana will be released, there will maybe be a way, since I've heard it will contain variant metamagic rules.

Since I've mentionned Unearthed Arcana, I have to mention Arcana Unearthed, just to prove I'm not confusing them both. AU introduces the concept of "ladening" a spell, which means using two slots (of same level) to cast it, and metamagic requires the ladening of spells. In addition, some powerful metamagic feats (like Quicken IIRC) may be used only a certain number of time per day.

But neither an unpublished book nor a book that proudly claims to be a variant rulebook nor any houserule you can make up can be considered as legit 3.5 rules.

 

[Number47]

Weretiger was my first thought, too. Especially considering the obviously huge strength build. But a weretiger only has Pounce while in tiger form...

 

[Pax]

What I am wondering is how he is getting save DCs of 32? 10 + 9 (heightened spell level) + 2 (greater spell focus = 21, meaning he would have to have a +11 Int bonus. That's a 32 Intelligence! I'm not sure that's possible. Could I be missing something?

Red Wizard Spell Power didn't change; it still adds to Spell DCs within the RW's specialty school. So, Red Wizard (10) is worth +4 or +5 on those DCs. Add +1 for Tattoo Focus (the feat is described alongside the Red Wizard, as it'
s a prerequisite), and it becomes:

10/base +9/spell level +1/tattoo focus +2/GSF +5/specialist power +5/intelligence(20)

32 is not only redily achievable for a well-built Red Wizard, it's not even the highest it can go (Intelligence starts at 18, +3 for level, +5 from a Tome, and +6 from a HEadband of Intellect ... that's a 32, for +11 ... giving a "peak Spell DC" of 38.

I don't know the PG's level offhand, though it's obviously at LEAST 15, if he's slinging 8th level spells around. But if it's higher, then after Wizard(5)/Red Wizard(10) ... a Necromancer, Illusionist, or Enchanter with access to non-Core source materials shoudl go Shadow Adept, which can jiggle the spell DCs upward by as much as (at 25th level -- W5/RW10/SA10) +4 more. At that level, adding Epic Spell Focus is merely adding insult to injury ... for a peak Spell DC of 48!!

 

[Grog]

Well, I'm certainly glad they nerfed Spell Focus - it was obviously the source of the out-of-control-DCs problem.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Red Wizard Spell Power didn't change; it still adds to Spell DCs within the RW's specialty school.

DMG 3.5, p 194

Spell Power: At 2nd level, a Red Wizard gains a bous that increases his effective caster level for purposes of determining level-dependent spell variables and for caster level checks. The bonus starts at +1 and increases at higher levels, as shown on Table 6-15. This ability stacks with other spell power benefits that affect spells from the Red Wizard's secialist school

The Red Wizard's Spell Power did change.

Spell Power is supposed to be changed wherever encountered (but imagine the outrage if they had included all classes with spell power into the 3.5 core rules. The mob from this forum and from the wizards boards would have killed a lot of innocent kittens). I think the FRPG will change these classes (I know only of one other class with spell power: the Shadow Adept. And saying "Even though they changed spell power everywhere else, they didn't mean to do it with the Shadow Adept, and anywhere, there is no change to that so I keep the old version" is very childish).

 

[Pax]

DMG 3.5, p 194


The Red Wizard's Spell Power did change. [/b]

Mea culpa ... a major brain-fart there, on my part. Oops.

I think the FRPG will change these classes (I know only of one other class with spell power: the Shadow Adept. And saying "Even though they changed spell power everywhere else, they didn't mean to do it with the Shadow Adept, and anywhere, there is no change to that so I keep the old version" is very childish).

Actually, the Adept's own shadow-magic-specific Spell Power didn't change; that information is in EICompiled:

Spell Power: For every three levels gained above 9th, add an additional +1 to the DC for saving throws against Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, and dark-ness spells cast by the epic shadow adept, and a like amount to his caster level checks to overcome spell
resistance using the spells from this school.

Rather than just waving the "didn't change it yet" flag, I can instead wave the "specifically retained the old version" flag. Not that the mere +3 Spell Power (and +1 from Shadow Magic itself) is truly going to have a huge effect, after all.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

What is EICompiled? Where can I find it? What's that probably obvious abbreviation which I surely don't get cause of a brain fart (I do have them often - I'm always happy when I remember what site I wanted to visit by the time my browser has loaded...) standing for? (And why is abbreviation such a long word?)

 

[Sacrusha]

Epic Insights. Can be found on the wotc website, but they actually just packed everything they had in one pdf and wrote a big "3.5 compatible" on it, without doing more than the obvious changes(feat namess, skill names), so I wouldn't give anything on that.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Like I said: brainfart. I even have the pdf on my PC.

I think they should have changed it with shadow magic, too. Maybe the person who did the compilation didn't know about the change (wouldn't be the first time information didn't get to the right person within WotC)

 

[Pax]

Then again, it's a minor ability, and keeping Shadow Power as a DC boost instead of a caster-level boost is thematic ... plus, just because TWO classes (with +6 and +5, respectively) were broken with it, doesn't mean the third (with only +3) inevitably is as well.