D&D 5E How to De-Magic 5e

[Harzel]

...as for rituals? I don't have any particular problems with them.

Interesting. Rituals bother me in a way similar to cantrips. Free magic, just not available in combat, though you wouldn't cast most of them in combat anyway. Especially Detect Magic and Identify lose any sense of being magical. Subjective, obviously, but that's how they strike me.

 

[Tony Vargas]

. Especially Detect Magic and Identify lose any sense of being magical.

Y'know, if D&D had had skills from the start, detecting magic or identifying an item might've just been arcana checks - one % with lotsa modifiers, of course, and the other roll 1 or 2 on a d6.

 

[Don Durito]

Y'know, if D&D had had skills from the start, detecting magic or identifying an item might've just been arcana checks - one % with lotsa modifiers, of course, and the other roll 1 or 2 on a d6.

...and Read Magic.

 

[Mecheon]

You ABSOLUTELY need your players to buy into this. Mine... didn't. At least, not entirely and it showed. As I said, I wound up in a "No caster game" having like 4 out of the 5 PC's be partial casters.

I think this is ultimately going to be the problem

D&D has been designed as magic heavy ever since at least 2E. If people hear "Hey, I want to play a D&D session", they're going to be thinking high magic stuff simply because that's how its generally presented these days

Going for a D&D-like that doesn't have magic as tied to it would honestly be the best way

 

[Don Durito]

Iron Heroes badly needs a 5E update.

 

[Ashrym]

Y'know, if D&D had had skills from the start, detecting magic or identifying an item might've just been arcana checks - one % with lotsa modifiers, of course, and the other roll 1 or 2 on a d6.

Not sure if you are serious or not. It's late and I'm probably missing something here, lol.

The bard's legend lore ability included identifying items as a percentile roll in AD&D. Spellcraft skill checks had applications but needed extreme (sometimes epic rules) DC's in 3.5 as well. The same was true for sense motive to determine if someone was under the influence of magic. 4e was obvious in arcana use.

5e uses an INT (arcana check) to recall lore about a magic item or spell effects. It's still here but how much information is managed by the DM. Handling an item is enough to determine that it's special (no roll needed) and identifying it's properties can be done during a short rest (no roll needed) limited to 1 item at a time. Potions are automatically identified with a small sip.

Identifying magic items has been done by "skill" roll way back when. Now it doesn't even need a roll for items. Detect magic and identify only speed up the process in that aspect.

You probably know all that and I'm missing commentary on inconsistent methods in 1e or something.

 

[Don Durito]

Originally you could only identify magic items with the Identify spell. The Bard's spell Legend Lore is relatively late (2e), the spellcraft skill much later and 3E didn't always go as far in revising and consolidating as it should have.

In older versions of the game the wizard couldn't even read scrolls unless they had the read magic spell memorised and available to cast.

All such functions would be better served by a skill.

 

[Coroc]

If you want to tone down magic then limit the spell selection instead. Still you might want to consider whether every wizard nieeds a crossbow like in 3.5 or "darts" or a sling like in 1e 2e for the time he ran out of spells.

Means full caster should still have 1 attack cantrip. Just kick out every spell level 6 and higher from wizards or priest list and reduce the number flashy spells, or those who got high combat value and voila you got a much less magicky feel for 5e. Delete the bard and the warlock class also, they are very much magic and will not work well without or with restricted magic

 

[Ashrym]

Originally you could only identify magic items with the Identify spell. The Bard's spell Legend Lore is relatively late (2e), the spellcraft skill much later and 3E didn't always go as far in revising and consolidating as it should have.

In older versions of the game the wizard couldn't even read scrolls unless they had the read magic spell memorised and available to cast.

All such functions would be better served by a skill.

1e bard could identify items as well.

"The bard also has a chance to know about legendary and significant objects, especially magic objects. The chart shows a "Legend Lore and Item Knowledge Percentage", which is the chance the bard will know something about a legendary person, place, or thing. This same number is the chance the bard will be able to identify a magic item, provided it is an item of one of the following types: weapons, armor, potions, scrolls, rings, any item a bard can use, and any item marked by magical inscriptions. (Bards can read runes, glyphs, characters, symbols, and other types of arcane writing.) In addition to identifying the item, the bard may be able to identify the alignment of an object if it is of an appropriate type and has an alignment. He does not need to touch the item to perform these skills. The information gained will be on the order of a legend lore spell. Artifacts and relics are legendary in nature, and not covered specifically by this ability."

Technically thieves read scrolls starting at 10th level too.

Read magic was a silly restriction. I agree on using skills to cover these abilities.

 

[Don Durito]

Well yes I didn't bother to go back and check whether 1e bards could do that because really...they were a joke.

I never saw anyone play a bard in 1e and they were pretty much impossible to play by legal character creation rules.

The bard didn't really become a class (as opposed to a bizarre rules quirk like psionics) until 2e.