How to design a Greek hoplite?

[Priest_Sidran]

After doing some research on the subject of the Hoplite a standard fighter class (whether fighter from the PHB or a variant core class from elsewhere) would work for the basic stats.
He really shouldn't go to far from the Phalanx fighting style however, because that is the key strength of the Hoplite.

Weapon focus (longspear) + monkey grip or similar feats should allow a one handed profficiency with the two handed reach spear. Trouble is which spear to use. I said longspear but in truth a Hoplite spear is a double weapon (it has both a spear point, and a butt spike similar to a pointed mace head) The weapon was between 8 ft and 10 ft long and had a unique grip about mid point between to the two ends. The weapon was only used for thrusts, until it was broken, and then they pulled a Xiphos, or Lakonian Sword (somewhere between a Knife, and a Shortsword for the later). As someone said earlier the shield was indeed worn but it was not freely worn without the need of a hand. It had a complex grip that held the arm in a brace, which also ended in a grip to allow for more control. Called a "Corinthian" grip by some. So the spear would have to be wielded one handed IMHO a more accurate use of the weapon in most regards anyway.

The easiest way to make a Hoplite is to write a homebrew, or wait for the 300 Spartans sourcebook which someone in the Publishers forum is seeking a writer for.

Speculating on a Homebrew the class would have a decent HD, Good Fort, Ref and Have Shield Mastery, perhaps Fast Movement, Weapon focus as a first level bonus feat, Phalanx benefit abilities. A bonus on checks against knockback, or other similar ability would be appropriate. Anyway since this is the wrong forum for this type of discussion I will leave off at this point but I recommend writing a class or having him write a class for you. Or there are a number of already written classes about on the Boards (not so much here as elsewhere) that would work for the class.


I have treated my Hoplite spear IMC as a regular Longspear with a 1d6/1d4 damage (with the 1d4 beng bludgeoning). The weapon is called a Sarissa IMC and has reach.

 

[Sejs]

That's kusari-gama.

Subtle but important difference.

A kusari-gama is a sickle with a length of weighted chain attached to its handle.

A gusari-kama is a length of weighted chain with the hindu god of love attached to one end.

 

[mvincent]

I have treated my Hoplite spear IMC as a regular Longspear with a 1d6/1d4 damage (with the 1d4 beng bludgeoning). The weapon is called a Sarissa IMC and has reach.

Note: in real life the sarissa was apparently longer than the hoplite's spear and was wielded with two-hands (along with a shield, which was effectively used like a buckler in D&D terms). Because of it's reach, it was useful in keeping hoplites at a distance.

 

[Darklone]

Note: in real life the sarissa was apparently longer than the hoplite's spear and was wielded with two-hands (along with a shield, which was effectively used like a buckler in D&D terms). Because of it's reach, it was useful in keeping hoplites at a distance.

Yupp, see what I posted above.

I guess you don't need a feat to use a longspear one-handed, you need a feat to use a shield like a buckler while you fight in formation with a longspear!

 

[kigmatzomat]

I don't want to gimp him too much (-2 to attack rolls is pretty painful when your attack bonus is only 2 to begin with) for following his concept. What I've gone with is a feat that lets you use a longspear one-handed as an exotic weapon. It doesn't feel too powerful, his damage is only D8 after all, and spending a feat to get reach seems fine to me. Spears need a little love after all

You're not gimping him. You are, however, contrasting a 1st level character with the historical Spartans who started training for war around age 7. Virtually no other culture had such an ingrained and structured training of the Spartans in 300. Other cultures were as harsh on children but not with the focused goal of making them into warriors. By the time they were released from the schools, they'd had more than a decade of training, training likely on par with to that provided by the U.S. army. Every Spartan was the equivalent of a career green beret, with 10 years in service.

Let's look at it a different way. An 11yro spartan child could probably take a 16yro greek soldier. A 14 yro spartan could probably kill a greek soldier that lived through a few battles. A 17yro spartan has a decent chance of killing a greek soldier that survived a campaign. IMO the spartans change the age categories with 1st level being ~11yro, 2nd at 14 and 3rd at 17yro.

Plus in 300 Leonidas' men were themselves veterans, making the movie representative of higher level troops.

 

[Klaus]

Human Fighter 4
Str 15 (up from 14) Dex 13 Con 15 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 8
HD 4d10+12 (34 hp) AC 19 (+1 Dex, +5 armor, +3 shield)
Feats: Phalanx Fighting (CW), Combat Reflexes, Hold The Line (CW), Shield Specialization (heavy) (PHBII), Endurance, Improved Toughness.
Possessions: Breastplate, heavy steel shield, short sword, longspear.

The DM would have to rule that the hoplite can use the shield arm to help wield the spear, forgoing the shield AC.

At 6th level, the hoplite would take Formation Expert (CW).