How to find the "joy of prep" in PbtA games?

[thefutilist]

Given that cognitive loading (aka distraction) is not the issue, can you say concretely what the issue with decision criteria is? Or what those "different decision criteria" are?

One motive for trying to understand this better is as it relates to my post #34 i.e. the suggestion that the kinds of prep that are appropriate for ludonarrative are those that frame or imply narratives without scripting them. (I've referred to that set sometimes as curated signifiers.) That sets aside the question of what ought to be disclosed to the various participants, and when, although it is hard to imagine a signifier effectively implying a narrative if it is kept secret.

Well when I GM I mostly want to think about what my primary cast of characters are doing. Which means them taking action based on the priorities I've established for them.

If I have to make stuff up, usually it's in reference to one those characters. The players go to a record executives house and I haven't thought about how it looks so I decide based on his priorities and position.

Here's some stuff I ended up thinking about.

If I did that before the session and then the players never go there. Then I guess it's unused prep.

If they go there then am I bound by what I prepared? Well my reactive answer would be yes. In actuality it depends on how important the thing is to the current situation. The more important it is the more likely I am to keep it fixed. Under no circumstances can I change something in response to a player decision.


As an example:

I think about where the record executive lives and I reckon it would be a modernist house. Probably designed by one of the early modernist architects. The players declare they are going there and as I'm about to describe the scene the thought hits me 'Nah this guy would have a contemporary modernist design his house.' Then I think that's all fair and legit because it's really just colour at the moment.

If on the other hand I'd decided the incriminating photo's were kept at his house. The players say they're going to the house and as I set the scene I realise it wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to keep them there. Then sucks to be me, I can't change stuff like that when the players have made a declaration.

So I guess what I'm saying is that the decision criteria is multi faceted and it really depends on what the status of the prep is and probably a whole load more variables.

A lot of this is game dependant though. The above is how I'd treat Sorcerer or Apocalypse world.

 

[Celebrim]

I run PBTA games every week now for many years. My prep its "What is the world up to?"

Funny, because I've been playing D&D for 40 years now and my prep is mostly, "What is the world up to?"

The most efficient prep is always:

a) What have the NPCs done.
c) What do the NPCs plan to do.
d) What resources to they have to accomplish those plans.

By that I mean, I think of what the goals of the main NPCs are, and how they might attempt to achieve those goals, an what assets they have to use. I make notes around such and then...

And there you go. You know how to be a GM. Like right there I don't need to know anything else about you. Like if you'd stopped with something as nebulous as a goal as prep, then I'd know you really can't run a table. But as soon as you started talking about plans and assets, I knew you for a GM.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

And there you go. You know how to be a GM. Like right there I don't need to know anything else about you. Like if you'd stopped with something as nebulous as a goal as prep, then I'd know you really can't run a table. But as soon as you started talking about plans and assets, I knew you for a GM.

But yeah, I hear ya. Thanks

I have run tons of systems and games for long time. And I think there are certainly a few authors and game books that do a good job at highlighting what it means to run an rpg, talk about what helps games be successful, and provide useful tools that make running a given rpg easier.

It's why I genuinely want to hear folks stories about why their players never got into their settings (other thread), or what tools players and GMs both find useful for starting and running games. These things don't have to be overly specific, Sometimes just bringing up the topic for discussion is enough.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Funny, because I've been playing D&D for 40 years now and my prep is mostly, "What is the world up to?"

The most efficient prep is always:

a) What have the NPCs done.
c) What do the NPCs plan to do.
d) What resources to they have to accomplish those plans.



And there you go. You know how to be a GM. Like right there I don't need to know anything else about you. Like if you'd stopped with something as nebulous as a goal as prep, then I'd know you really can't run a table. But as soon as you started talking about plans and assets, I knew you for a GM.

In fairness, I think that there is a distinction between games like D&D and games that have a different sensibility (so-called "no prep" games) that we are discussing.

I will again reiterate that I do not have a single correct answer, but I am curious to see how this continues to work for @BookTenTiger - prep for these types of games is something I avoid for the reasons I discussed above. That's not to say you can't, or shouldn't, do it- just that I am uncomfortable doing it.

 

[Fenris-77]

In fairness, I think that there is a distinction between games like D&D and games that have a different sensibility (so-called "no prep" games) that we are discussing.

I will again reiterate that I do not have a single correct answer, but I am curious to see how this continues to work for @BookTenTiger - prep for these types of games is something I avoid for the reasons I discussed above. That's not to say you can't, or shouldn't, do it- just that I am uncomfortable doing it.

I'd agree. You might have the aformetioned prep, assuming you're colouring outside the lines by doing that much prep in the first place, but you need to hold it lightly. Events in the course of the game mught obviate all manner of things you prepped. This happens all the time in PbtA play in my experience. Don't get me wrong, I prep locations and NPCs I think I'll need but who the heck knows if I'll actually need them or not. There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.

 

[thefutilist]

In fairness, I think that there is a distinction between games like D&D and games that have a different sensibility (so-called "no prep" games) that we are discussing.

I will again reiterate that I do not have a single correct answer, but I am curious to see how this continues to work for @BookTenTiger - prep for these types of games is something I avoid for the reasons I discussed above. That's not to say you can't, or shouldn't, do it- just that I am uncomfortable doing it.

If you're playing Apocalypse World say, do you stick to the clocks and backstory prep for the threats or do you not use them? or do you follow the text on a case by case basis? or is it, if you have the option to use floating prep (I think Blades in the Dark might be in this category?), then you don't use it.

 

[Fenris-77]

If you're playing Apocalypse World say, do you stick to the clocks and backstory prep for the threats or do you not use them? or do you follow the text on a case by case basis? or is it, if you have the option to use floating prep (I think Blades in the Dark might be in this category?), then you don't use it.

What do you mean by 'the text'? For a given game there is no texy, just what unfold in play. Fronts and clocks are just ways ways of tracking what happens next that obvaite GM choice in the instant.

 

[thefutilist]

Well let's say during the first session there was a gang of raiders established called 'The maximums.' There was nothing about the leader established so as prep you create him and give him a backstory.

Something like, Maximum was part of the Slavers gang but was constantly getting into leadership disputes. Eventually he was driven out but he really wants vengeance. He doesn't have the resources to do that at the moment but...

Clock time:


1) There are whispers that Maximus sent envoys to the dead eye mutants


2) The envoys will meet and discuss an alliance, the mutants will want a lot of jingle.


3) The Maximus gang will start raiding the scavengers. Something they don't normally do.


and so on.

Is that all fixed stuff you have to use or is it floating prep? like can the results of a dice roll change the backstory or you don't have to use the clock if you don't want. Or you could decide that Maximus sending envoys isn't good for whatever reason and decide not to do it.

By 'the text', I just mean the procedures suggested in a given rule book.

 

[thefutilist]

What do you mean by 'the text'? For a given game there is no texy, just what unfold in play. Fronts and clocks are just ways ways of tracking what happens next that obvaite GM choice in the instant.

Also I don't mean, are you following the rules, I don't really believe in following rules that way. There's always lots of stuff you have to invent or interpret or some stuff you just don't like and so you change it or some stuff you don't know how to use well so you change it.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

....

Is that all fixed stuff you have to use or is it floating prep? like can the results of a dice roll change the backstory or you don't have to use the clock if you don't want. Or you could decide that Maximus sending envoys isn't good for whatever reason and decide not to do it.

....

In no game ever, should the GM's notes and ideas ever ever be 100% "fixed".

PBTA just has a mechanic rules process which can generate drama on the fly, that's like really, all PBTA is at its core. Everything else is just advice on how to run PBTA and to a lesser extent, any RPG.

But the GM made that sht up, so they can alter what they made up. If they don't: they are throwing out tons of improvements and benefits from what develops during gameplay.

Have the ideas, have all the ideas. But be flexible.

If your joy of prep comes from giving backstory and details to NPCs, go nuts. The GM is a 'player' in the 'game' too, and they bring to the table their ideas and plots and plans as much as any player.

All PBTA asks is = be cooperative. Be a fan of the main characters. Think of the stories.