How to Fix a Slavery situation without murder? (Solved!)

[Mallus]

Let's see... you have

1) An immediate problem: nearby "slaver farm" which abducted the girl.

2) An immediate consequence (assuming the PC's "deal with" the slavers): needing to assist the current crop of slaves who have no legal status.

3) A long-term problem: changing the political climate in the slaveholding nation.

I'm really faliing to see the problem here. Slavery is an ugly business. As is fighting for emmanciaption/more universal liberty. Why are you afraid to let your PC's get a little blood on their hands in the service of a good cause?

Put less charitably, why are you trying to find a way to neuter as situation that's full of dramatic potential? Is there an age-appropriateness issue? I'm assuming no, since your tackling the issue of slavery, rather than some more abstract kind of supernatural evil...

 

[RandomUsernamehmimo71]

Slavery in this region is officially given for a few reasons- Prisoners of War, Lifetime Criminals, and those born to them. Problem is, a number of people get "Captured" from other areas, and the governemtn supports that, too, as long as they pay their taxes. What they're doing is legal under that area, although distasteful.
It would be hard to argue it politically, but not impossible.

It's a sticky business, and a number of people dislike it.. But most have never thought about it. Most people just want to live their lives, and as long as /they/ aren't a slave, they aren't worried.

Buying the slaves off would likely be an option, but it has the same problem as forcefully freeing them. They'll just find others.

I think I agree with the consensus that they can Try, and we'll see where things go from there. The community, and the people of the area won't like it. And they may start a war. I'll try to make sure I warn them of them in-game.

I'd like to try to have them reason/role-play it out. Problem is, with 40 people there, all it takes is one guy with a heroic streak. If one of them starts attacking, there's going to be fighting. And with that many people.. We're like to get one.

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Also, you have to consider the political ramifications, like others have said.

This isn't a party of unorganized half-orcs, who have many enemies that you can fall back to safely and not give it another thought. And it's also not really just about the parties worries.

What about the slaves? What about the borders they run to? What about the businessman you kill? They are evil... but then again so is your party in some ways (and no, not because they killed the businessman). Every person does something wrong, though some of those wrongs cause more suffering and pain than others. Occasionally, the correct thing to do is end the life of the one causing such suffering.

But if no one supports you in this endeavor, then it is you versus more than just 40 farmers. In addition, what will happen if those slavers die. If they were all just barbaric half-orcs, you'd kill them and it would be done. No one would care. No one would reciprocate. The rich people are another matter altogether.

It's kind of like a temptation of power. Do you conquer Rome and all the nations and make them righteous with your power? Or do you only use force when no other alternative exists, regardless of time and energy spent? Sometimes it's better to just keep talking, making pleas, etc., than it is for one party of 5 people to kill things. There are some evils you can't beat without creating all new problems.

If we killed everyone in this world today for the horrible things they do... we'd be in constant raging conflict forever. Nothing would ever get better. Some battles just can't be won by the sword.

 

[RandomUsernamehmimo71]

Why are you afraid to let your PC's get a little blood on their hands in the service of a good cause?

I'm not. I'm certainly willing to let the PCs do it this way. That's the game, and that's the part I like. Consequences for actions, yours and the worlds.

But I don't want this to be the only action on the table. If they're making a choice to do this, instead of something else, I want them to know the other options that they're not taking.

Mallus, I agree with you, in practice. I just want to make sure they know they have options, so this is a dramatic choice, rather than them feeling railroaded into doing something evil.
They want other options. They've been praying to their gods for them. I'm just looking for what to give them

Colin "Game wouldn't be fun without Realism. Even Dark Realism." Davis

 

[Kemrain]

Given that I'm going to be one of the murders, I figure my 2 cents might help the discussion.

If my character was left to her own morality, she'd kill them all in her sleep and feel bad that she might have killed someone who was relitively innocent. However, given that her spouce is half angel and firmly Chaotic Good, this isn't a viable solution. It sucks when your conscience is your love.

Freeing the slaves is key. Preventing the slavers from harming other people is key as well. If we can formulate a plan that accomplishes both goals, without resorting to violence, all the better.

By the way, it will be a group of 3 against the 40 slavers. One of the 3, Belle, is 3rd level, the rest are 9th (Belle is an NPC.) We're stealthy as hell, but, if we're caught we have to abort or we'll die.

In Voushta and it's surrounding lands, slavery is legal. It is heavily taxed, but very loosely regulated. The Voushtans treat their slaves very, very poorly. Voushta is run by a city council with a figurehead baron (who is a doppleganger-esque shapeshifter, but we can't proove that.) Voushta's true power is in it's criminal organizations, especially one run by a gentleman my character is well aquainted with (though his position on slavers is unknown and probably pro, as it makes lots of money and he isn't a good fellow.) Voushta has recently been in 2 wars, and is still recovering from damage the first sieging army inflicted. They are politically weak, and economically very strong.

Grensha, in the north, does not condone slavery. Baron Woodsrow is firmly agaisnt it, and his son, a Paladin, would gladly see it eradicated from the face of Alsatia. However, the last war took a heavy toll on Grensha's army, and Baron Valen Woodsrow is very ill (being poisoned by a succubus- we might have saved his life by getting rod if her temporarily.) Grensha is in no condition to fight another war, and this is plain to see.

These slavers need to be stopped, but there are no higher authorities to go to for assistance. Woodsrow sending even a small contingent of his army to stop the slaveing ring would be taken as an act of war by Voushta, and there would be much unnecessary bloodshed. If we managed to take the slavers prisoner, and delivered them to Woodsrow, if even one person told Voushta, there would be war. I like Valen and his son, and I don't want to inflict a needless war upon them; especially one they might lose.

Diamondback, the above mentioned crime boss in Voushta, is sending a group of men to this particular slave farm in retribution for something they did agaisnt him. We know about this, and hope to ride in their wake, killing as many of the slavers as possible while they are weakened.

Not freeing the slaves is a bad idea, as Belle will try on her own and she will die. Given that she's family, I'd like to avoid that. Plus, allowing the slaves to remain in captivity would be an evil act, on that weighs heavily on my conscience.

The suggestion to use terror tactics to scare the slavers off might work, but it might have the opposite effect- causing them to ally with the other groups and form a guild. Plus, I can't keep up long term terrorist actions, as I have other world-saving things to accomplish. (Ah, the life of an anti-hero.)

We can't bring the slavers to be imprisoned, we can't attack them with the law, we can't let them continue to ply their trade... If we can't kill them, what can we do?!

- Kemrain the Harrowed.

Also Known In This Instance As:

- Melissa Corinth, Chaotic Neutral Half-Demon.

 

[Derren]

Well, you would fight a loosing battle. Even if you can close down this camp you now will be wanted through all Voushta.
As slave camps are heavily taxed, and thus provide much income, it is the best interest of the rulers (those who get the money) that the camps stay intact and productive. Razing one camp will bring the wrath of the whole country upon you.

Also the last thing a weakened country needs is a slave rebellion, so someone freeing slaves can not be tolerated.

Have you tried the bluffing way? Get some forged official documents with the decree of the ruler that this slave camp is to be closed down and then drop hints that the owners are to be killed. (Just invent some believable reason why). Then after much haggling accept to let them go if they give all the slaves to you (for your own camp) and flee the country immediatly.

 

[Mallus]

I just want to make sure they know they have options, so this is a dramatic choice, rather than them feeling railroaded into doing something evil.
They want other options. They've been praying to their gods for them. I'm just looking for what to give them

Sorry to sound a little snarky... its my late-in-the-workday temperment.

If it were me, I'd give them the divine one-two punch in terms of signs and omens (of course I'm not sure exactly what they are right now, since its late-in-the-work-day for me...). First fire, then water, or something like that...

Basically, I'd leave violence the only solution to the slave farm. You upped the ante by personalizing local slavery in the form of the young girl, so I'm not seeing a dramtically satisfying way to end this without getting Biblical on the slavers. Its even better if the PC's need to resort to dishonorable tactics...

However, I'd throw a few minor miracles their way in terms of the aftermath. Smuggling the former slaves out of the country/to safety would be relatively easy. Maybe they'd meet some Underground Railround types. Maybe a light in the sky leads them through a secret mountain pass to the other country. Something...

Then I'd go easy with the pursuit. Have the response from the slaving country be one of confusion at first. Bend logic a little, if needed, so as not to punish the PC's for bold actions.

 

[Henry]

Given that I'm going to be one of the murders, I figure my 2 cents might help the discussion...

By the way, it will be a group of 3 against the 40 slavers. One of the 3, Belle, is 3rd level, the rest are 9th (Belle is an NPC.) We're stealthy as hell, but, if we're caught we have to abort or we'll die....

We can't bring the slavers to be imprisoned, we can't attack them with the law, we can't let them continue to ply their trade... If we can't kill them, what can we do?!

- Melissa Corinth, Chaotic Neutral Half-Demon.

9th level, you say... Is it possible to capture and plane-shift the bastards -- say, to the Hells for turnabout fair play?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Given that this is a fantasy game, is there any possibility that they could phone a friend -- i.e. pray to their diety (or dieties) for guidance? This sounds like a scenario in which a pissed off angel with a fiery sword appearing in response would not only be dramatically appropriate, it would shift the onus from the players to the NPC. The angel would wake the slavers and dispatch them anyway.

Having said that, it's not necessarily grim & gritty, but I'd think about the possibility that there might be someone else the PCs could get involved. I like the idea of the underground railroad earlier. And in a magical universe, the slavers could be geased or something similar to free other slaves themselves, meaning killing them might NOT be the only way to deal with the situation, or even the most poetic. (Since roleplaying is fiction, doing something poetically earns points in my book.)

While this might be a sticky situation, I applaud you for having a scenario of real weight and consequence for your players. Fighting a socially acceptable evil and dealing with the consequences is a lot more interesting than fighting some "evil because they just are" baddies.

 

[Len]

In the Halmae

Here's how Fajitas' players freed some slaves:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=1060632&postcount=121

And here's the story of how some of those PCs were nearly sentenced to slavery, in a country where slavery is not legal
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=858630&postcount=36

I don't know if this is at all helpful to you, but it's a good read.