How to Fix a Slavery situation without murder? (Solved!)

[Kemrain]

A good way to avoid that is to specifically respond to the non-hostile suggestions like mine. I have no idea whether my suggestions fit with your world or what I could do to provide further assistance.Maybe you could give those of us who offered advice a sense of which parts have been useful.

Good idea. Why don't I respond, from the beginning.

The first things suggested were that we cause a war between the slave nation of Voushta and the free nation controlled by Baron Woodsrow. This might be a good solution to the problem of slavery, but it doesn't help the immediate issue of the 24 children that Belle wants us to rescue. Plus, given that there was a recent bloody war, that Voushta is run by a shifter, and that Valen Woodsrow is very ill, I'm not sure that the Good guys would win such a war.

You've painted your PCs in a corner and you recognize that. They are outnumbered, probably by 10-to-1 and those villians have abused a young girl. This is the kind of scenario where the paladin puts down his holy symbol and says "I always liked the sound of being Neutral Good anyway".

I love this quote, as it's what I see a Paladin being like in situations like these. Fortunately, we have no paladins in the group. In fact, we have a Rog 9, a Rog 4/Ftr 2/Rgr 1/Mnk 1/Mge 1 (My character, Melissa), and Belle, who's Rog 3. The Angel mentioned above isn't 'with' the group, but is using an artifact to scry on them (and the enemies). Melissa and the Angel are in constant telepathic communication, hence the "My conscience" bit.

For all that magic, and my Spell Like Abilities, we have very little in the way of spells. The other plot we're working on, a 'Save The World' issue, involves restoring a magical imbalance caused by the last war. There's an antimagic field over the continent, stronger in places, weaker in others, that blocks arcane magic only. We're trying to fix the problem by feeding the plane more magic- by destroying magic items to let their energy out and into the plane. Without this, the plane will continue to lose magic until it can't support life, and, while that's a while away yet, we'd like to keep it from happening. We've ruled that Outsider's SLA's are Divine magic more than Arcane, so they work fine, but with only one caster level, it's unlikley that I'll be able to get any spells off.

I mention that because many people offer magical solutions to the problem which, in a time of better magic, might work well. I've avoided throwing the magic issue out there because it's complicated and old game plot, not terribly related to the slavers, but it keeps coming up and I suppose it couldn't hurt to explain it. More to come.

- Kemrain the Incomplete.

 

[Kemrain]

What I've seen the most from this thread is suggestions for how to deal with the issue of slavery. Though it would make for a good campaign, it isnt' where we're headed at the moment. We are dealing with an immediate stuation of saving these 24 slaves from those 40 slavers. Once it's over, and the slaves are free and safe, the characters will certanly be more aware and alert for slavery issues, but they have bigger fish to fry than "the eternal struggle of mortal agaisnt mortal." I know it will come up further down the line in the campaign, but, as we've been playing it for 3 years (1.5 years in game) and see no signs of stopping soon, it's a problem we can come back to.

The issue has been brought to a head in game mostly because of Belle. If we won't help her, she'll try to free her friends on her own, and she'll die. Stopping her from doing what she feels is right would be wrong in the Angel's eyes, and Melissa agrees (Chaotic-ish alignment talking there), so if we don't help she goes alone. Given that she's the niece of Melissa's adoptive father, she's like family, and we don't want to see her dead. On top of that, everyone involved agrees that what the slavers is doing is terrible, and wants them to stop. Given that, we have to free the slaves and bring them to safety, however, it's also important to us to keep these slavers from ever abusing people, especially children, ever again. The slavers are mostly guilty of things that would make the half-demon flinch, or so Belle says (she did lie and tell us the slavers had magic items to destroy to help motivate us in case we weren't good people). We don't have the time to start a smear campaign or run them out of business, and buying the slaves would just encourage them to get more, even if we can afford it. We're a day or two out of the slavers farm, we have enough food for 2 for more than a week, and I can live off the land, but we don't have enough for the slaves. The slavers probably do, and they have horses and wagons to help get the kids out with.

Given all this, the best solution we've come up with is killing the slavers, stealing their food, horses and wagons, freeing the slaves, burning the farm to the ground, and escaping into the night, heading for the free city of Grensha in the north.

Although the suggestions for abolishing slavery are good, and we appreciate them, at this time they aren't what we require. We're looking for alternatives for killing the slavers, and we've got some. Selling them into slavery was suggested, and while poetic, it's something that none of the characters would be willing to do, even Belle. To this group, murder or execution is more of a good answer than perpetuating slavery. Ruining them financally is a great idea, and if we had the time we'd be happy to do that. We have an ansy 12 year old who has revenge in her eyes and wants to get her murderin' on, though, and we can hardly blame her. I've talked her out of torturing the slavers to death, but she's convinced that murder is the only way to go, and as a perfect prevention plan, I have to agree.

- Kemrain the Not-Quite-Complete.

 

[Darkness]

The criminals will attack no matter what you do (assuming you don't wipe the slavers out before they arrive), won't they?

So if you attack before the criminals and leave any slavers alive but not many of them are in a fighting shape after you leave, they'll probably get slaughtered in any case.

 

[Kemrain]

Sorry for the triple post. I figure it's better than one 12 paragraph post.

It has been addressed that killing the slavers in their sleep and waking them up to fight fairly are both, basically, murder. While I agree in principle, the point seemed to revolve around the idea that we were guaranteed to win. We're not. Not even close.

We're playing under Ken Hood's 3.3 Grim and Gritty rules, which means that I have 17 HP, DR 5, and take wound penalties to attack rolls once I take damage. 40 slavers could easily wear even Melissa down, and Belle is in even more peril.

Given that, it really seems like the best option is mass murder. Most of the slavers diserve it, it will allow us to free the slaves safely, it allows us to use the slaver's supplies for the slaves, and it keeps the slavers from ever harming anyone again. I have a chance to keep Belle safe, and maybe even turn her away from the road to hell (being determined to kill someone is one thing, doing it is another. I'm not sure she has the stomach for it.)

Given the advice I've seen to this point, I'm still convinved that murder is the best option in the short term. If Belle survives, maybe I can get her to start an underground railroad. Even if I don't go on campaign to free slaves, I might be able to make a difference in the world through her.

I dunno, am I being crazy?

- Kemrain the Resigned Murderer.

 

[Kemrain]

The criminals will attack no matter what you do (assuming you don't wipe the slavers out before they arrive), won't they?

So if you attack before the criminals and leave any slavers alive but not many of them are in a fighting shape after you leave, they'll probably get slaughtered in any case.

Though e1ven mentioned before, I don't think he did a fantastic job of it.. Diamondback's men left ahead of us. The slavers caught wind, and called in friends from other slaver sites. By the time we get there, the slavers will have intercepted the thugs, and slaughtered them. When we get to the farm, they'll probably be celebrating their victory. The Rogue 9 that will accompany Belle and I is another player's character who was part of the thug's group. We'll meet him soon.

C'mon e1ven, keep up here. You'd think I was running the game, given how much more I've explained.

Pity Melissa doesn't know any of that.

- Kemrain the, um, Assistant GM?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Have you considered slaughtering the slavers (as above) and leaving a few of the bodies as object lessons?

Perhaps staked out along the road to and from the slavers' hideout? Perhaps with magic mouths attached, decrying their fate to all who pass by (or, at least, the first to pass by)? Have them speak of the avenging spirits of the enslaved dead, come back to wreak bloody vengeance.

You might also want to make sure the slavers' mouths and throats have been destroyed, to prevent a clerical ally from casting Speak with Dead on them to get the real story.

Cast the most powerful necromantic spells you can think of, even if you let the energy just drain away. Generally, the lingering aura of mortal spells (less than 10th level) only lasts a few minutes, but perhaps your DM will allow you to stack the spells in such a way that you can cause the aura to linger a few days. This might throw off those who examine the site of your work magically.

Throw lots of Magic Auras around. With durations of 1 day per level, each will let you make each of the slaver's bodies - or, perhaps, just a particular "lucky" few - to have been the subject of particularly nasty spells. It takes an Identify to realize that the aura is false, something that's unlikely to be done on the corpse of a slaver.

Should you ever get a chance to hit another slaver's compound, lather, rinse, and repeat. This works even better if tales of avenging spirits are common in the folklore of the area.

Good, in its righteous wrath, should be just as scary as Evil.

 

[Darkness]

Ah, missed that. Thank you, Kemrain.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but why don't they just buy all the slaves from the slavers, then free them?

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Well, at the end of the day, I suppose your only choice really is to kill all of them.

I would only suggest that your PC's take one last good look or at least one last good consideration of what they are about to do. Are the slavers only beatable by violence (yeah, I know, you're been asking that all this time).

The magic route seems to be your other alternative, but judging from your class make ups (four class character... wow. ), that won't work. Looks like death is the only way.

I'm not sure it's murder so much as simply killing. Murder implies that you're going in, and basically killing them for your own benefit. Killing implies that you are merely carrying out a necessary act. You're going in to free those slaves, who rightfully deserve freedom. The slavers will try to stop you. You will have to kill them to get them.

Ah, what do I know. I've been struggling with that part myself. I really like hearing about the way your campaign is organized, with the gritty rules and all. It makes for a deep D&D game, one where it's not simply a matter of "Well, they be orcs and we do not like them." Whatever your party chooses to do, which I'm sure will involve a liberation, here's hoping that the rest of the campaign remains enjoyable, and that over time your GM will eventually return to the events that unfold as a consequence. It would be a shame if this event merely becomes a footnote in the party's struggles.

 

[Kemrain]

Well, at the end of the day, I suppose your only choice really is to kill all of them.

I would only suggest that your PC's take one last good look or at least one last good consideration of what they are about to do. Are the slavers only beatable by violence (yeah, I know, you're been asking that all this time).

The magic route seems to be your other alternative, but judging from your class make ups (four class character... wow. ), that won't work. Looks like death is the only way.

And to think, I'm looking at two 5 level PrC's next... We're looking, we're looking hard. I doubt we'll kill them all, but given that survivors might recognise me later, I'll be wearing horns, wings, a tail and a rather less-than-pretty face, so roumors of demons harvesting the damned get spread. Requires less magic than the undead theories. Just gotta keep Belle's face under a cowel.

I'm not sure it's murder so much as simply killing. Murder implies that you're going in, and basically killing them for your own benefit. Killing implies that you are merely carrying out a necessary act. You're going in to free those slaves, who rightfully deserve freedom. The slavers will try to stop you. You will have to kill them to get them.

The web provides some nice definitions of Murder that my GM and I agree on.

The traditional definition of “murder” during the nineteenth century is a homicide committed with “malice aforethought”, or having the intention to cause death before committing the act. Basically murder was the unlawful taking of another person’s life with malice. Furthermore, there were five factors that determined the fact that an act of violence was murder, which are as follows: (1) intention to kill, (2) intention to cause serious injury; (3) extreme recklessness or disregard of a very substantial risk of causing death; (4) commission or attempted commission of a felony; or (5) according to some authorities, resistance to a lawful arrest.

According to this, killing the slavers is Murder, even if they deserve it. then again, Melissa is pretty OK with Murdering bad folks.

Ah, what do I know. I've been struggling with that part myself. I really like hearing about the way your campaign is organized, with the gritty rules and all. It makes for a deep D&D game, one where it's not simply a matter of "Well, they be orcs and we do not like them." Whatever your party chooses to do, which I'm sure will involve a liberation, here's hoping that the rest of the campaign remains enjoyable, and that over time your GM will eventually return to the events that unfold as a consequence. It would be a shame if this event merely becomes a footnote in the party's struggles.

I agree! I wantto see something come of this, and I know it will. e1ven might forget to clarafy details on the boards, but he's a good GM at the table, and thinks things through.
I'm pleased that you enjoy hearing about our game, as I was worried that giving as much information as I have would bog things down and cause people to lose interest. I'm always happy to share my game.

- Kemrain the Unable to Figure Out URL Tags for the Website with Murder Definitions.