how to hit on girls without being creepy?

[Hida Bukkorosu]

No offense, dude, but with the "just wanna bang her" comment, you pretty much decided it right there, didn't you?

A lot of the stuff Teflon Billy is talking about does work, and while its hard to lay the blame entirely on the guys - the people involved in the women's upbringing deserve some blame, and one would hope women themselves would be a little more self-actualized - all of this sort of behavior plays on ways that women have been mistreated by other men in their lives - father, brothers, ex-boyfriends, etc. - and usually only reinforces the problems in them when whatever you wanted them for is over. It moves them further from being "the sort of girl you bring home to Mom" - as the old song says, "It wasn't God who made honky tonk angels."

Courtship, in the classical sense, believe it or not, still works - if you see a girl you want to meet with some of her friends, approach one of them, and ask them to introduce you. Be yourself - period. From there, make gentle suggestions, but allow her to set the pace. If she is weak in character or self-esteem, build her up. If she acts as though she's afraid to debate anything with you, MAKE her fight you - if she has a problem with you, you want her to be willing and able to come to YOU about it, not her friends behind your back. Dedicate yourself to her entirely (and I mean entirely) until she makes it clear that that is unwelcome or she dishonors you in some obviously intentional fashion. (And even then, be ready to forgive repentance.) Be willing to die for her and more, be willing to LIVE for her.

That, in my humble opinion, is the biggest problem with modern life - everyone seems to be out for #1, and they've forgotten the joy of purpose. Your kids, your love, maybe your country or god, and then you - in that order. And dedication to them comes at Moment One - maybe they can lose it, but they should never have to earn it. Its that simple.

Being the jerk may "get you some", but in the end it will be no more satisfying that what you could have gotten from a magazine or the internet and a free hand, and you may have hurt someone.

But don't tell me you didn't expect Torm to come out in favor of honor and chivalry.

that's great if you're lawful good. but i look out for number 1 first, although i do try to avoid hurting others when possible, and i believe in staying true to myself as an individual above all, so that makes me firmly chaotic neutral

i do agree that deceiving women in order to obtain sex from them is wrong. i guess this is how i envision the process:

1.) notice attractive female
2.) talk to her
3.) try to meet for "date"
4.) on date, get to know her and evaluate her personality
5.) determine whether there is any attraction that goes beyond physical
6a.) if yes, then at end of night tell her i'm interested in a relationship
6b.) if no, then at end of night tell her i'm only interested in her physically, and ask if that's ok with her

 

[barsoomcore]

Dude, get a spine. Try something. What is the absolute worst thing that could possibly happen? I'll tell you what -- she could laugh at you and tell all her friends about what a loser you are.

Oh well. There's a certain percentage of human beings on this planet who are going to think you're a loser NO MATTER WHAT. You better get used to it.

And odds are pretty low she's going to do that. And if she's the sort of girl who acts that way, hey! Better you find out now.

TB's right -- being a bit of a jerk is an attractive thing. I don't mean be cruel, but be strong. Call her on her crap. Don't agree with everything she says and don't be a doormat, in the hopes that she'll take pity on you or reward you for your good behaviour. Why shouldn't SHE have to do a little work to get YOU? Won't she be more excited about "acquiring" you if it's something of a challenge? So don't make it too easy for her -- that's self-defeating.

But that all comes from confidence. And frankly, if you haven't got that or aren't willing to acquire it, well, I guess you can always hope for the best. Sometimes that works out.

 

[Qlippoth]

To be honest, I don't think the whole "meeting new people" phenom implies only 2 possible strategies (#1. Be nice & sweet & reap the consequences; #2. Be a "jerk" and reap the consequences). I think there's much to be gained from combining these approaches. I certainly don't rate myself a "player" (wouldn't want to), but there are genuine results to being "difficult" (note: that doesn't mean "surly" or "crude"). The idea is not to drag a potential significant other down, but to introduce some silly (yes, "silly") conflict that PLAYFULLY can spur conversation, during which both people (ideally) get to find out about each other (g-d, that sounds so Leo Buscaglia). Witty repartee was something that Hollywood idolized in the past; there's no harm in throwing some (however frivolous) dialogue towards someone who might very well respond in kind (it's called "flirting"). Be yourself, but don't be a marshmallow. The right girl will appreciate the sweetness (if you have it) after having met you.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Dedicate yourself to her entirely (and I mean entirely) until she makes it clear that that is unwelcome or she dishonors you in some obviously intentional fashion. (And even then, be ready to forgive repentance.)

No offense, but this is the single worst piece of advice I've seen in this thread. If you dedicate yourself entirely to a girl, you neglect yourself and the girl will start to take advantage of your goodwill. I'm speaking from experience here, I did that with my wife, and it caused so much trouble down the road when I wasn't able to sustain that any more. The bottom line is that there is no such thing as a selfless act. If you sacrifice something important to you to a stranger, you are doing it because it makes you feel good to do it. By the same token, if you are taking care of her better than yourself, then there's a pretty good reason you're doing it; most likely the nookie you're getting. Unless you want to spend the rest of your life at her beck and call, do not do this. Besides, the majority of women are more likely to break up with you if you do this because they start seeing this as clingy, or because they flat out don't respect you.

In fact, I would say that a borderline apathetic approach is a far better bet. She should have to prove to you why she's good enough to keep. Do that and you'll be surprised at how happy you'll be in the long run.

 

[Humanophile]

Billy, re-read your advice. Re-read what Hida's been saying. Torm's rhetoric is something to follow when you have the luxury (emotional and otherwise) of being able to pick your choice of girls; the really swell ones don't play or require games, but they're an extreme minority. Your advice is good for hooking up, but expecting Hida to be able to pull it off gives me 2e memories, where new players were given characters piled with powerful-yet-complicated rules and end up too confused to actually do anything productive. (This could just be my 2e experience, but I'm sure enough of you understand this digression.)

Hida, yes it would be lovely if things could be that simple. But unless you have the massive advantage (looks/money/charisma, and at our ages girls come in ahead of an "equal" boy), that's not how it works. If you're looking for that much simplicity, massively tone down your requirements, or be willing to pay up-front. Otherwise, stop thinking like a gamer geek with the book in front of him, and start thinking like a gamer geek in play. Start "leveling up", learning how to talk to girls before trying more complex relationship dynamics. It will suck at several steps, but the only alternative requires significant cash flow for the rest of your romanic life. And for god's sake, stop thinking "if I hold eye contact for three seconds, smile at the one minute mark, and press the jump button three times, I can unlock the pantyland level". The rules are far more complicated than that, and the only way to learn them is practice. Better to have an okay conversation now, learn how to play the social games, and earn your firsts down the line than to try too early and fail miserably. At the beginning, just focus on the conversation, and it's perfectly fine to admit that you're not comfortable/used to talking to girls. You try looking more skilled and confident, and doing the things that require more skill and confidence, when you're actually more skilled and confident.

 

[Torm]

When he is looking to settle down with Mrs. Right, that's when you bring Torm's advice onto the table.

It will give Mrs Right the impression that she has "changed you", and that's "woman ina relationship" gold right there

Bwah ha ha! That's downright diabolical. I like you, TB! Ever get near my daughter, and we'll have trouble - but I do like you.

No offense, but this is the single worst piece of advice I've seen in this thread. <snip> I'm speaking from experience here, I did that with my wife, and it caused so much trouble down the road when I wasn't able to sustain that any more.

No offense taken - I know how much of a fool you can feel when you gave all, and they stomped on it. All too well. But not every girl will take advantage of you. Okay, maybe that's not quite the right way to say it. Rather, I should say not every girl will take advantage of it in ways you would ever mind. Or bluntly, not every woman is a selfish &@$!.

I didn't say it was easy, or even moderately not hard. Heck, I had one relationship (see Worst Dates Ever thread) that ended with me almost completely broken - the woman who became the wife I'm married to pretty much literally saved my life. But I'd rather go through that pain ten times again than live in a relationship where I wasn't who I really am to the person who is supposed to know me better than anyone else, and where I wasn't in it ALL the way.

But to clarify one thing I said, I said to accept repentance - repentance has to be REAL. You should give the benefit of the doubt, but you'll know when you're being played - I didn't say be a complete fool, but to be dedicated.

Note to Hida Bukkorosu: I think barsoomcore has given the best advice that has been posted in this thread in a little while, in the first few lines of his previous post - too much of this advice is about (and I'm sure the ladies here will just LOVE this analogy ) what to do once you've gotten the fish in the boat, when what you're really asking is how to cast your bait. Honestly, a lot of the post-catch stuff, you're going to have to decide on the fly, depending on what kind of fish you caught. But what barsoomcore said about just putting yourself out there, and not being afraid of rejection when they, too, are just stupid humans , is probably the best place to start any encounter.

And your checklist of stuff to do sounds pretty honorable to me - straightforward discussion of options is great. Hate to tell you this if you're one of those people who hates paladins, but Torm approves your plan as stated so far...

 

[Orblivia]

The problem with meeting and dating the opposite sex nowadays is that men are restricted by so many laws as to what they can and cannot say and do.

Courting is now called stalking.
Wooing is harassment.
What once was considered charming is now called creepy.

You practically need a team of lawyers behind you when you approach somebody you are interested in. There is such an atmosphere of distrust and wariness that pervades the entire dating experience that neutral meetings in neutral venues are the only safe way to go without being arrested.

Am I bitter? Nah!

Ponderous.....

Courting is courting and stalking is stalking, never the twains shall meet.

You wanna come a courtin call ahead.

And what is a woo anyhow?


Look to the OP here is my advice-

Be yourself, love that self, bathe regularly and strive to be your best. Really thats all anyone can ask and if she isnt into it keep it movin. Someone better for you will be there

 

[maddman75]

i don't think i can pull off the confidence thing, i have no ability to fake emotions. it was a lot of trouble when i worked at the movie theatre i couldn't force myself to "smile" when i did not feel happy.

Good. That is not the goal. You do not need to pretend to be confident in yourself, you need to actually do it. You need to realize that you're a good guy, you'd make a great boyfriend, and if she doesn't realize this it is her loss and her problem. If you don't realize these things you got bigger problems than picking up women.

my major goal right now is to have my first kiss before i graduate. i'm open to the idea of love if i meet the right person or people but am not opposed to a purely physical relationship either. i also don't want to decieve girls as to where they stand in the matrix either, i don't feel it's right to make a girl think you want an LTR when she's in the "physical fun" category.

Why are you deciding ahead of time what the nature of the future relationship is? Just go with it. If its just physical, well that's what it is. If its more, then great.

in a perfect world, i'd be able to go up to girls and say "hi. you're hot. wanna make out?" in a simple and direct way, and even if the girl was not interested in making out with me she would be flattered instead of offended and politely turn me down and i would politely move on and ask the next girl.

unfortunately, society frowns on this open honesty and prefers these silly convoluted dating rituals, and its so ingrained in the culture to the point where expressing interest is offensive to the point of being illegal unless it's done in a certain way.

Wrong. There is no law against going up to a strange woman and saying 'Nice shoes wanna [explitive deleted]'. Not that you'll have a high batting average with this method, and its rather rude, but you aren't going to get arrested for being an ass.

so i'm trying to figure out how to, well, approach girls with the intent of asking them out, without making them extremely uncomfortable, in a way in which i can get an honest acceptance or refusal, and in a way in which people won't look at me and say "call security there's some creepy guy harassing girls!".

You are worrying about things that do not exist. Has this ever happened to you? I seriously doubt it. More likely you imagine this may happen. Most girls if not interested will politely decline, or make up some excuse. Where do you think 'let's just be friends' comes from. No one wants to have some confrontation just because someone is interested in you.

This is given, of course, that you aren't fixating on one girl. That fixation breeds desire and desperation, which is poison to attraction. Don't fixate or come up with some mental construct of a relationship that does not exist.

one more question: say a girl is sitting in the cafeteria or on a bench reading a book or studying... how do i know if she does or doesn't want to be interrupted? see a lot of times i'll be bored sitting around on campus, and i'll start reading a book or studying but wouldn't mind being interrupted by someone interested in talking to me particularily if it was a girl... so my question is how do i differntiate the girls who are thinking like me in that regard from the ones who are seriously studying / engrossed in their reading and don't want to be bothered, so i know which ones i can safely try to "chat up"?

Why are you worried about what she might be thinking? You're trying to think for two people now. Just go up and talk to her. If she's seriously engrossed her body language will tell you right off. If she gives quick noncommittal answers and keeps looking at her book, move on to greener pastures.

 

[Torm]

Torm's rhetoric is something to follow when you have the luxury (emotional and otherwise) of being able to pick your choice of girls; the really swell ones don't play or require games, but they're an extreme minority.

It isn't "rhetoric" - the difference between you and I is that I believe that almost all women (people in general, for that matter) are, if not outright diamonds, then diamonds in the rough. I used to would have left out that "almost", but I have met a very few truly broken people. But I still believe that for the most part, anyone can have the best drawn out if you take the time and care to do it right. The games are there, but they aren't usually even their fault - the games are their logical response to what the world has shown them so far. You just have to show them more than what they've already seen.

 

[Banshee16]

Get a dog Dogs instantly decreepify men. Don't ask me why, I don't know. But somehow women find men who have dogs much less creepy than men without dogs.

Maybe if you can nurture a dog, give it attention, and keep it from starving to death, you might have hope with children?

Banshee