How to make a player stop being a paladin

[Pielorinho]

Some other things to try:
-Talk with him about his PC and about working plot hooks into his character.
-Have him (and all your players) answer a questionnaire about their character (what was your past like? What are your hobbies? Who's your best friend? Who'syour worst enemy? Do you have a lover? What makes you willing to risk your life in adventure? What about you annoys people? What about you inspires or entertains people? etc.)
-Ask him what he wants to get out of gaming, and where he as a player would like to see his character go.
-Dramatize the benefits and disadvantages of being a paladin -- he might be highly respected in town, but people might also take advantage of his generous nature, and both friends and enemies are likely to see him as the group's leader.

In other words, work with him to flesh out his character. If this one dies and he wants to play another paladin, suggest that his new character had some connection to the old one -- perhaps is a member of the same order, or is an old lover, or even the younger sibling of the first character.

Daniel

 

[Vaxalon]

Here's the problem as I see it:

The player wants a character that is self-sufficient.

Sounds like a noble goal, eh? Lone hero, standing against evil and all that?

Well, that's fine for movies and books but it doesn't wash in a roleplaying game.

One of the questions that should be at the top of any player's mind is "Why is my character palling around with these people?" This one isn't. He's thinking, "How can I set things up so I don't need to have any of these other people around?"

 

[Henry]

First of all, as a player I consider it horribly insensitive to punish a player for choosing a certain class. If you want the player in question to leave your group, and have no concern for repercussions, then do this; otherwise, there are other options.

It is far better to make it a condition on the outset that certain classes and/or races are not allowed in your campaign; this will put him on a fair and level playing field. You can also tell the group for your next game you would like for everyone to make up characters that are atypical of what they usually play, or propose that everyone make up 1st level characters with a point-buy system, then put all characters in a pool, and determine who gets which PC randomly. Don't single out the player for making something they are comfortable with and desire to play.

I have two players who do this very thing, or close to it. One player always plays a ranger. Doesn't matter what game system, what version of game, his characters always come out as rangers, serious private eyes, laconic scouts, GURPS characters that use two weapons and track like bloodhounds, etc. etc.

One other player plays Paladins. Its in his blood. If we all ever got transported to D&D-land, he'd be the one to fit archetype. His most memorable characters include a Lawful Good Cleric of Tyr, two Paladins, and a Lawful good mage with a near-paladin code.

What can I say? These two players like to play their favorite archetypes. SHould I punish them because they do? You might even find if you punish your player for such, assuming they do not leave the group, they may well create a lawful or neutral good character that acts like a paladin, even in the most extreme of circumstances. What would you do? Kick them out? Kill them off, to make yet ANOTHER neutral good fighter with a heart of gold?

Think about the nature of the problem, and what solutions involve talking about the true source of the problem, rather than draconian measures that might cause hostilities.

 

[Rhialto]

Second of all he is the only person in the party who tries to make his character unstopable.

Okay, seeing as everybody else has focused on the "paladin" part, I'd like to focus on this part. And I have to ask--what do you mean? Does he try to make his character hard to kill? In that case, he's just doing his job. In fact, I'd have to wonder about what the other less "unstoppable" characters are doing... The other option of course is that he is a rules-lawyer, though personally, I don't see too many rules-lawyers going into paladinship--too high a cost for too little gain.

To be honest, I find myself wondering if the real problem lies with you, and your desire to control the game. When you say, "the whole party" is sick of it, do you mean that they are, or that you are, and they seem to agree with you? And why is the party sick of always having a paladin? Do they want to burn down some towns, and they find that the paladin crimps their style? Are you (and perhaps the group as well) essentially trying to intimidate the player into playing the kind of character you all want him to play, instead of the one he wants to play? If that's the case, no wonder there are problems...

*Sigh* I know that all seems harsh, but I can't count the number of times I've read a DM bitching and said to myself "Sounds like you're the problem here, pal, and not him..."

 

[Bonedagger]

Re: Re: How to make a player stop being a paladin

Okay, seeing as everybody else has focused on the "paladin" part, I'd like to focus on this part. And I have to ask--what do you mean? Does he try to make his character hard to kill? In that case, he's just doing his job. In fact, I'd have to wonder about what the other less "unstoppable" characters are doing... The other option of course is that he is a rules-lawyer, though personally, I don't see too many rules-lawyers going into paladinship--too high a cost for too little gain.

To be honest, I find myself wondering if the real problem lies with you, and your desire to control the game. When you say, "the whole party" is sick of it, do you mean that they are, or that you are, and they seem to agree with you? And why is the party sick of always having a paladin? Do they want to burn down some towns, and they find that the paladin crimps their style? Are you (and perhaps the group as well) essentially trying to intimidate the player into playing the kind of character you all want him to play, instead of the one he wants to play? If that's the case, no wonder there are problems...

*Sigh* I know that all seems harsh, but I can't count the number of times I've read a DM bitching and said to myself "Sounds like you're the problem here, pal, and not him..."

Or it could also mean that the player don't want to depend on teamwork. Guess we wont know until we get some more info.

And yes. There is always a chance that the version we get is biased but if we had to take that into account then this would soon get boring.

 

[Turjan]

How can a Paladin get annoying?

1. He's preaching all the time. This is not a problem for the DM, but for the members of the party. They should simply tell him to shut up.

2. He always wants to be the party leader, because "Paladins are natural leaders". Aside from the fact that this would be an OOC argument, it's again a thing for the other group members to regulate, not the DM's. If they don't want him to be the leader, he won't be. As simple as that.

3. He's collecting all the cool stuff. This is a topic for the DM to rule. Let the player be casually questioned in some tavern. If he's going to be bragging, or even if he will be rude: let him be summoned by his superiors as a consequence. They will tell him that they have heard of his unruly behaviour, strip him of the wealth that is against his rule of conduct, and, last not least, they will punish him in one way or the other.

4. He doesn't want to cooperate with the party. Well, I'd say, this is the most difficult point, because this is a hint for the RL character of the player. A Paladin is thought to be a charismatic personality. He should try to cooperate with all the forces of good and law. You could take the solution of point 3, but I would suggest talking with him first.

Turjan

 

[Nightfall]

I have a player who constantly plays a paladin. The whole party is basically sick of the same character over and over again. Second of all he is the only person in the party who tries to make his character unstopable. I need help.

His defence in this is that a paladin is the most self-sufficient character class in the game.

Just tell him no. Defense or not, your the Dm. If he can't do it right, or just won't change, it's your job, for the sake of the party AND the game, to illicit these changes.

 

[Rhialto]

The problem I have with simply siding with the DM in this one, is that he's given us few details and no facts, merely opinions. This tends to be the sign of such a heavy bias, that I almost never form opinions on it.

Hell, given what we're told, Mr. Paladin might be the wronged one in this situation...

 

[Turjan]

@Rhialto: I got your point. But all 4 points that I made take this into consideration. If the DM has to say no to all 4 points, I don't see that he, the DM, should be complaining.

 

[Rhialto]

True but there are other ways the Paladin can get "annoying"--

1) He's killing our buzz!--the party likes to perform actions of dubious legality and morality. The Paladin doesn't like this, and tells them so.

And its close cousin...

2) "What's a matter, not a team player?"--the party has a tenedency to come up with rather brutal plans to solve its problems. The Paladin doesn't like this, and comes up with different plans.

And as for what might annoy the DM--

3)"Aren't you dead yet?"--the DM likes to throw very dangerous traps and spells against the party to whittle it down. The Paladin, thanks to his high saving throws, tends to survive these. And, on those occasions that the DM does manage to kill the Paladin, the player responds by making another Paladin...meaning yet another irritating character who will dare to survive the DM's traps! The nerve!