How to tell the PCs...

[Tinker Gnome]

That not all monsters are static and that an Orc could be highter than 1/4 of a CR? TAll my PC's seem to think that if it is a monster race it can not advance past what is in the MM. So, how do I remedy this? Unfortunately due to the nature of my players, I might be met with a blatant, "NO THEY CANT, AND YOU CANT DO THAT" response.

Like for instance, they always seem to think if it is a Goblin or Orc then it willl be an easy fight. It if is otherwise, or if said enemy is actually smart, then they will complain.

They are all in their mid to late teens, as am I. And are all VERy immature, but I deal with them. I am really only running the game for them and for a free dinner. Hell, one of my players will follow a person with crutches at school and laugh at them.

 

[Nifft]

Show them an Elf from the MM.
Show them an Elf with class levels.

Show them an Orc from the MM.
Show them an Orc with class levels.

Let them die a few times.
They'll learn, or their dying screams will lull you to a restful sleep each night.

-- N

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Show them an Elf from the MM.
Show them an Elf with class levels.

Show them an Orc from the MM.
Show them an Orc with class levels.

Let them die a few times.
They'll learn, or their dying screams will lull you to a restful sleep each night.

-- N

Well, that would work, if one of them did not always pull me aside and say "You cant do that, change it now!"

I am thinking of telling them all to grow up so I can have fun too. Otherwise I am considering just stopping DMing for them.

 

[Willthechased]

Better yet....!

Dig up the old 'Tucker's Kobolds' article from Dragon. Let them read it and then run a session or two using classed, clever enemies...
That'll learn 'em!!!
-W-

 

[Chimera]

Well, that would work, if one of them did not always pull me aside and say "You cant do that, change it now!"

There is an "advancement chart" in the stat block for a reason. Show them this. There is also every reason for "monster" races to have class levels. Are any of them playing non-humans? Then if they complain, ask them why their character is allowed to have levels when the 'Elf' for example is only shown one way.

Then...refuse to change it! Of course they're whining gits if you always cave in and change it back!. They've got you beat and they know it! All they have to do is whine and complain and poor little you always gives in.

Grow a spine.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

There is an "advancement chart" in the stat block for a reason. Show them this. There is also every reason for "monster" races to have class levels. Are any of them playing non-humans? Then if they complain, ask them why their character is allowed to have levels when the 'Elf' for example is only shown one way.

Then...refuse to change it! Of course they're whining gits if you always cave in and change it back!. They've got you beat and they know it! All they have to do is whine and complain and poor little you always gives in.

Grow a spine.

I would , but one of them is my older brother, so I have to live with him. He will not let me continue unless I change it back. Not to mention he is the only ride anyone has for dinner. This Fall he will be going to College, so he will be gone. That only leaves the problem of dinner, as I will NOT drive with them in my car, and I do commend him on being able to drive with people slapping each other from the front seat to the back seat. And in general moving about the whole car.

 

[Nightfall]

Well another way, have them fight Slitheren that have alter self active looking like Orcs. Course I'd favor using Black Pelts since they have that lovely Spell resistance and can damp most magic items.

That's just me though being evil.

 

[Nifft]

"Change it back?" How do your players know what's going on behind the screen?

If he's old enough for college, he should be old enough to deal with NOT being a whining weasel for a few games.

But if he is an incurable whining weasel... let me repeat:

They'll learn, or their dying screams will lull you to a restful sleep each night.

-- N

 

[Tinker Gnome]

"Change it back?" How do your players know what's going on behind the screen?

If he's old enough for college, he should be old enough to deal with NOT being a whining weasel for a few games.

But if he is an incurable whining weasel... let me repeat:



-- N

It is more so that if I have an Orc do something that they think an Orc should not be able to do they wil complain and he will keep talking the entire time trying to get me to tell him HOW the Orc can do it and that it should not be able to. And he will not shut up about it until I give in to him.

As for being mature, he will go to a foreign country and yell obscenities in peoples faces in a language they cant understand and think it is funny.

 

[Cithindril]

I would , but one of them is my older brother, so I have to live with him. He will not let me continue unless I change it back. Not to mention he is the only ride anyone has for dinner. This Fall he will be going to College, so he will be gone. That only leaves the problem of dinner, as I will NOT drive with them in my car, and I do commend him on being able to drive with people slapping each other from the front seat to the back seat. And in general moving about the whole car.

Bottom line: as the DM it's YOUR world...everything is subject to alteration by you (despite the fact that what you're describing is completely within the published rules). If the folks you're playing with don't like it, find a new group or hand the DMG to someone else and tell them to have at it.

btw Nightfall, like how you eventually turn every topic to the Scarred Lands..