How to tell the PCs...

[Acid_crash]

Why in the world are you running the game? If your brother demands you change it, then tell him to run the game. If he says no, you run it, then tell him that you are the DUNGEON MASTER, and THEY ARE THE PLAYERS, and SHOW them the page in the DUNGEON MASTER GUIDE where it states that all DUNGEON MASTER DECISIONS ARE FINAL. End of story.

So, stop caving. You RUN the games, you PREPARE for the games the most, therefore YOU are in charge. If YOU can't handle it, then don't run it. End of story.

 

[Nightfall]

I try. It's an artform called "Pimping even if your Campaign setting isn't being published at the moment'

Besides it just struck me how to run Slitheren encounters. Use a lot of illusionary magics.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Why in the world are you running the game? If your brother demands you change it, then tell him to run the game. If he says no, you run it, then tell him that you are the DUNGEON MASTER, and THEY ARE THE PLAYERS, and SHOW them the page in the DUNGEON MASTER GUIDE where it states that all DUNGEON MASTER DECISIONS ARE FINAL. End of story.

So, stop caving. You RUN the games, you PREPARE for the games the most, therefore YOU are in charge. If YOU can't handle it, then don't run it. End of story.

I have tried, but he believes they are not. I am only going to run it now because we just got the 3.5 books, and it would be a waste to not use them. Hopefully I can knock some sense into all of them next session.

Good ole' Nightfall.....

 

[Cithindril]

I try. It's an artform called "Pimping even if your Campaign setting isn't being published at the moment'

Besides it just struck me how to run Slitheren encounters. Use a lot of illusionary magics.

I'll have to give that a try...in the middle of a bit of a slitherin adventure right now in fact..

 

[Jdvn1]

Or you could be like:

"Here's a Tarrasque. You could fight it or fight an orc with a few class levels. You want time to discuss?"

The you-don't-like-it-you-die method. I don't like to use it, but extreme situations...

 

[Castellan]

Frankly, I wouldn't want to game with these folks, but I understand that your situation is different.

You've got a couple of possible courses of action:

(1) Turn it around on them. The next time they complain, sigh, and say, "Yeah... I didn't think you guys would be able to handle something like this. It's just too hard for you..." If they're always bullying you, a little of the same psychology on them might work. You might find them jumping up and saying, "Whoa, now! We never siad we can't do it!" If they do, you've got them hooked. Make it a hard combat, but in the end, make sure you praise them: "Wow... You guys did all right against that. I'm gonna have to come up with something else that'll be more of a challenge." Of course, remember that you shouldn't be trying to beat them, so there's no animosity.

(2) Bring in a new monster. Create a monster for your game -- call them Galeromites or something -- you know that they're just goblins, but make sure your players know that these monsters are capable of gaining class levels. If necessary, show them a write-up of a "generic" type of Galeromite. Tell them that not all Galeromites will be this easy.

In a situation like yours, it's hard not to degenerate into a "Nuh Uh! -- Yuh Huh!" argument, but you should try not to let it get to that. Show them that in the Monster Manual (or many other sources) critters can advance "as character class." Tell them that some of the monsters will do that. Perhaps, it wouldn't hurt to ask them the following:

You: "Ok, we've got a lair of goblins. They have a leader, right?"
Them: "Yeah, he's probably got more treasure, too!"
You: "Ok... How did he get to be the leader? He's tougher, right?"
Them: "Well, yeah..."
You: "So, if I use the rules provided, maybe he's a 3rd level fighter, right? Otherwise, how will he keep all of those other goblin grunts in line?"
Them: "Well, isn't that what the goblin guards are for?"
You: "Yeah, thanks. I forgot about the guards. They're going to be stronger than the regular goblins. And that means the goblin leader is going to be stronger than the guards, otherwise they'll start to think that they should be running the clan!"
Them: "Huh... Yeah... I guess so."
You: "And if the goblin leader and the goblin guards are higher level, don't you think they'll probably have more treasure, too?"
Them: "Yeah, that's right! What's wrong with you?! You should be throwing bigger things against us so we can get more treasure!"
You: (thinking to yourself) "Suckers..."

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Frankly, I wouldn't want to game with these folks, but I understand that your situation is different.

You've got a couple of possible courses of action:

(1) Turn it around on them. The next time they complain, sigh, and say, "Yeah... I didn't think you guys would be able to handle something like this. It's just too hard for you..." If they're always bullying you, a little of the same psychology on them might work. You might find them jumping up and saying, "Whoa, now! We never siad we can't do it!" If they do, you've got them hooked. Make it a hard combat, but in the end, make sure you praise them: "Wow... You guys did all right against that. I'm gonna have to come up with something else that'll be more of a challenge." Of course, remember that you shouldn't be trying to beat them, so there's no animosity.

(2) Bring in a new monster. Create a monster for your game -- call them Galeromites or something -- you know that they're just goblins, but make sure your players know that these monsters are capable of gaining class levels. If necessary, show them a write-up of a "generic" type of Galeromite. Tell them that not all Galeromites will be this easy.

In a situation like yours, it's hard not to degenerate into a "Nuh Uh! -- Yuh Huh!" argument, but you should try not to let it get to that. Show them that in the Monster Manual (or many other sources) critters can advance "as character class." Tell them that some of the monsters will do that. Perhaps, it wouldn't hurt to ask them the following:

You: "Ok, we've got a lair of goblins. They have a leader, right?"
Them: "Yeah, he's probably got more treasure, too!"
You: "Ok... How did he get to be the leader? He's tougher, right?"
Them: "Well, yeah..."
You: "So, if I use the rules provided, maybe he's a 3rd level fighter, right? Otherwise, how will he keep all of those other goblin grunts in line?"
Them: "Well, isn't that what the goblin guards are for?"
You: "Yeah, thanks. I forgot about the guards. They're going to be stronger than the regular goblins. And that means the goblin leader is going to be stronger than the guards, otherwise they'll start to think that they should be running the clan!"
Them: "Huh... Yeah... I guess so."
You: "And if the goblin leader and the goblin guards are higher level, don't you think they'll probably have more treasure, too?"
Them: "Yeah, that's right! What's wrong with you?! You should be throwing bigger things against us so we can get more treasure!"
You: (thinking to yourself) "Suckers..."

Heh, well thank you for this advice. I will try this approach next session and it will hopefully work.

 

[Quip]

Simple answer: don't use orcs. Or anything from the monster manual. Use material they've never seen, or you just made up yourself. Or even just change the names and descriptions. It won't change their biased views, but at least they'll be forced to think outside the box.

 

[Chimera]

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, Galeros, but you are insistently acting like a spineless loser. Now, I don't mean that as a personal attack (although I'm sure it sounds like it), but as fodder for self-reflection.

Look at your constant replies here. They won't let you. They'll just complain. They won't let you continue.

SO??????

Like another has said, either do the thing or do NOT the thing. Either stand up and say "this is the way it is" or give up trying to be GM. If they don't like it, then simply stop GMing. Don't fight, don't argue, don't play games.

If you have to call mom & dad or a friend to get a ride home one night, then you can explain to mom & dad why whining git of a brother didn't give you a ride home - because he was being a stupid whining [expletive] and decided to leave you stranded because you stood up to him.

Look man, I'm telling you this because you're going to have to get used to this in life. People are always going to whine and complain and try to get you to back down from perfectly reasonable things. It's up to you to decide how YOU want to live your life and the rules you want to live by, then to do so without caving in every time someone else says "I don't like that. Change it!".

If I was so inclined to revisit the ugly past (which I am not), I'd tell you the story of two ex-friends who were unable to put their 2 year old boy to bed because "he'll just cry".

Don't establish a pattern in your life where you back down every time someone complains or wants you to do things differently. Or you will never have control over your own life - you will always be a slave to the fears and demands of others.

 

[Cithindril]

I'd probably start the session with a frank talk about what everyone expects from the game. I'd state that as the DM I will be generating challenges that don't conform to the players expectations to make the game more interesting and enjoyable. Rules lawyering will not be allowed while the game is underway but I'd give them a chance at the end of the session to bring up any concerns. I'd then ask if they can support this and look for consensus...if they can't, resign as DM.

Bottom line: be up front with your players and get them to agree to a common set of ground rules or don't DM.

Hope it helps...