How unbalancing would this be?

[thundershot]

I can't get my players to play HackMaster, but I don't want it all to go to waste, so yes, I've been inserting a HackMaster monster in here and there, but the thing I DO want to see if anyone else has tried is giving monsters and characters the 20 hit point kicker... I tried it the other night when a mid-level group was doing The Sunless Citadel, and it seemed to work a bit.. I wanted a challenge, so I gave the goblins 20 extra hit points and gave them guns from Arsenal (it was a lost civilization, and the guns and armor didn't always work right). It was awesome! But I'm just wondering if it would be too unbalancing if I did that all the time... or what I would need to do to balance it out..


Thanks
Chris

 

[Douane]

thundershot,

aren't you taking that elusive "game-balance" a bit too serious?

I might be stupid, but if everyone had fun and it was an enjoyable session, isn't that more important than if it was "balanced"?
If it works for you, great!



Just my my 2 cents,

Folkert

 

[thundershot]

Well... the players said I kicked their asses. But there was a fear of death from some goblins with guns and 20 extra hp to spare.

I just don't want to make a permanent change to my game like that without considering the consequences.

Should I only reserve that 20 point kicker for special circumstances such as this, or go at it full force and see what happens? I mean, the worst thing that can happen is I tell them I'm taking BACK those 20 hit points...

And yes, our games are fun, not "too serious", but I do take my world and its consistancy seriously... since I've invested a lot of time and energy into it.



Chris

 

[Douane]

Since I don't know anything about HM, so I assume the "20 hit point kicker" is a straight bonus?

If so, I don't think there's much danger in that. Compare that with giving them class-levels, where they would also gain BAB, better saves and skills and perhaps even feats or other abilities.

Concerning the guns however, I think this is a more serious matter. Even if ancient and lost, your players might still think about repairing or reverse-engineering them.
Even if they decline using them, does extended gunplay really suit your world? Besides they lose their novelty value pretty fast, if used too often.


Folkert

 

[Fenes 2]

I don't get it - what is the problem with giving the goblins 20 extra hps? You realize that you could as well have given them a couple class levels, right? 20 additional hitpoints is not that powerful compared to 4 class levels in fighter, rogue or even warrior.

I usually use levelled NPCs as enemies, which works out fine.

 

[Fenes 2]

Concerning the guns however, I think this is a more serious matter. Even if ancient and lost, your players might still think about repairing or reverse-engineering them.
Even if they decline using them, does extended gunplay really suit your world? Besides they lose their novelty value pretty fast, if used too often.

I'd want a private talk with the DM - just me, him and a piece of pipe - should he ever put guns in my D&D game. They kill my fun immediately.

I always say: Why not use magic wands with charges instead? Same effect, less problems with reverse-engineering and the industrial revolution.

 

[Stone Angel]

Well I am glad that you guys had fun. But to answer your question, I suppose it goes to how far you can take it. If your party does retrieve the guns. Let them use em. Remember it is just as fun to trash some of your monster as much as it for them to have a real hard combat. Just after they use em make them break beyond repair. This sort of thing is great just in small bursts. Kepp us posted. Man

 

[Centaur]

I don't think the 20 extra HP is a big deal. IMC I calculate NPC and moster HP based on 75% of max instead of the average of dice rolls. Gives the beasties a fighting chance to get in a shot or two before becoming a smear on the battle mat.

That said, I would think long and hard about the potential consequences of putting guns into your campaign, even if only for a little while. Using spells that can repaid mechanical objects will make them immposible to get rid of unless they are stolen. Of couse, ammo supply is a different problem.

 

[thundershot]

Oh, I've never had a problem with guns in my campaign.. they're rare, yes, but the guns in ARSENAL are hardly normal guns.. they're magical guns. The guns were meant to be foreshadowing for the adventure to come in Dragonstar. Ancient weapons that are far superior to current weapons, blah blah blah... It's not like the guns came out of nowhere. (And Arsenal is a GREAT book that everyone should check out!)

If I do the 20 hp kicker, should I give it to the characters, as well, like HackMaster?



Thanks
Chris

 

[Balgus]

I second the motion of "fun".

The only thing I can see is that you did this with lvl 1-3 char. With some char only having 10 hop, giving a goblin and EXTRA 20 hp is like a death sentence.


give them a couple more levels and it shouldn't be a problem.

As for guns, I introduced them into my campaign a while back. The fighters loved it, because it gave him a chance to do some real range damage. But nowhere near his melee damage. So any chance he got, out comes the sword.

It did not hinder gameplay ant. Just added flavor- which no one really bothered to explore....took it out shortly thereafter.