How viable is the max-CON fighter?

[Plane Sailing]

Hammer Rhythm is what makes a high-con fighter work.

So you think that a high-con fighter can't work in heroic tier?

I've got empirical evidence which trumps this theory


In all seriousness, whatever else the 4e designers did they made it pretty difficult to make an ineffective member of any class. Of course someone can focus on optimising Strength and getting this neat feat with that neat paragon path and so on... but that is largely a paper exercise as far as most people are concerned.

The fact is, you can have a fun character with almost any set of stats. Perhaps it is because I come from a generation where typical character creation involved rolling 3d6 in order and then deciding what class you would best fit...?

 

[Blizzardb]

I second this. A fighter with Str 14 and Con 20 could be fun to play, even if he is not the most optimized character. The real issue is would you like to play such a character. If you get frustrated when you miss, it is probably not the best idea.

Oh, and I do recommend Battlerager Vigor. You will be tough as nails with it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

...well, if you're going with a high Con fighter, you'll be wanting the BattleRager class feature, rather than Weapon Talent. Make that a +5.

Moreover, the BattleRager fighter will want a hammer (+2 prof) and chain (lower AC). So he's probably got a +4 if he's going with the pathetic 14 Str.

1st level monsters have ACs that range from 13 - 17, with an average of 15. So a +4 will hit the average 50% of the time. That's not bad. ....But as you go up in level, their AC goes up faster than your attack bonus. So what's fine at 1st level (low Str) turns worse as you level.

I'd really recommend not gimping your fighter with a 14 Str. The pay-off for such a strategy seems weak.

Well this is exactly why I didn't recommend going Battlerager. You lose too much + to hit by not having the Fight Weapon Talent and using the higher prof. Yes, the higher your CON, the better the Battlerager is... but you'd be better off coming closer to equalizing STR vs CON, than leaning so much in the CON direction.

And as the Invigorating keyword exploits will work for you so long as you take Endurance as a trained skill... I still think going with the Fighter Weapon Talent / +3 prof weapon is the most effective way of a 20 CON fighter still remaining a viable attack threat while having the highest HP and AC possible.

 

[Blizzardb]

In my opinion, even without the additional bonuses from wielding a hammer and using chainmail, the Battlerager trait is by far the best alternative for a Con 20 fighter just for the temporary HP it grants regardless of equipment. Of course it depends if you are going all for toughness or you wish a more balanced character, but if you started with 20 Con, I guess you are going all for toughness.

There was a long discussion about the Battlerager in another thread of this forum, you may wish to find it and read it through before creating your fighter. As far as I recall, all points of view were presented there (from "ridculously-
imbalanced-way-better-than-every-other-fighter-banning-it" to "isn't worth it"), so you may decide who you want to believe.

 

[Cadfan]

I think that 14 str, 20 con is a bad idea. Go ahead and have a high constitution score, but why are you dead set on a 20? 20s are hideously expensive, and you're not getting all that much from it. Go 16/16 or something.

 

[themilkman]

The feasibility of low-strength aside...

If race is flexible, you might want to consider using a dwarf instead of a human. Dwarves get a bonus to wisdom, which can give you a much-needed bonus to-hit on OA and make you stickier. Also Dwarves have some great racial feats that benefit battleragers.

 

[mlund]

Seriously, the Dwarf is the way to go. That Wisdom bump helps your attack bonus on OAs, and your attack bonus on your OAs is what keeps monsters from ignoring you and going melee on your allies. If monsters can safely ignore you and go melee on your allies you are a terrible, terrible Defender.

- Marty Lund

 

[Nail]

Seriously, the Dwarf is the way to go.

...and make him a battlerager. Great-goggly-moggly, would that be one tough and sticky fighter.

 

[DracoSuave]

...and make him a battlerager. Great-goggly-moggly, would that be one tough and sticky fighter.

Sadly, a poor strength is nerfing your Combat Challenge, i.e. your stickiness.

Warforged 18/18 is the build to go.

Hammer Rhythm for the smish.

 

[mlund]

Sadly, a poor strength is nerfing your Combat Challenge, i.e. your stickiness.

Actually, your Combat Challenge really isn't your stickiness. Your Combat Superiority is your stickiness. It keeps people from getting away from you easily. That allows you to use Wisdom in addition to your Strength.

Now STR + CON is obviously the most powerful combination, but a S16, C18, W14 Dwarf is as sticky as an 18/18/12 Warforged.

- Marty Lund