How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[Micah Sweet]

I think it is worth re-establishing your position in any given new thread (or other discussion, but we are here so). That way it is most inclusive to people coming in. I can't expect @Micah Sweet to remember my position on player agency or even my definition of it, let alone someone with who I have not interacted with a bunch. We are hear to have interesting discussions about topics we care about (which sometimes get a little heated) and so I think it is helpful to do that in a way that invites the most people in with the least confusion.

I appreciate that @Campbell thinks about some of these thing "in jargon" and I will endeavor to remember that -- asking for clarification, rather than getting frustrated (which is my default, unfortunately).

Yeah, that's fair. I will try to do the same.

 

[soviet]

I think it goes without saying (but here I am saying it) that jargon works best when everyone in the discussion is on the same page regarding what it means and comfort level using it. If someone feels a term has connotations they don't care for, they are going to be uncomfortable using it, even if they know what it means.

Translated: 'it has story game cooties'

 

[hawkeyefan]

Oh, please, no one was crying "elitism". That is something you are injecting into the discussion. I am advocating for naturalistic discussion about the things we talk about, because I think it is more inclusive and easier to actually get to the heart of the thing. it isn't some sort of attack on you or what you prefer.

But, if you think i am attacking you by stating a simple preference, the ignore button is right there.

No, I don’t think you or anyone else is attacking me. I was bringing up a common complaint about jargon, which has actually come up in this exact way in this thread already.

When someone uses a term I am unfamiliar with, I ask them what they mean. When someone phrases something in a way that’s unclear to me, I ask them to clarify.

We all use jargon. Some is more widely accepted and is never questioned. This is because it was used frequently enough to become accepted. Asking folks to stop using such terms before they’re widely accepted disrupts that process. I don’t think it’s a healthy way to handle it.

I think it goes without saying (but here I am saying it) that jargon works best when everyone in the discussion is on the same page regarding what it means and comfort level using it. If someone feels a term has connotations they don't care for, they are going to be uncomfortable using it, even if they know what it means.

I’m sure this is true, but really, it’s too bad for those people. Like, scene framing as a term has nothing to do with theater. So your discomfort with it… the connotations that you perceive… is specific to you.

Rather than asking everyone else to change their approach to the discussion, you should change yours.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Translated: 'it has story game cooties'

A deeply disrespectful translation, with a fair amount of dismissal attached. I don't recall using language that insulting about your preferences.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think "scene framing" is good jargon as it is pretty clear and non-pretentious. I dislike some of the forgey terminology, but this one is fine.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, I don’t think you or anyone else is attacking me. I was bringing up a common complaint about jargon, which has actually come up in this exact way in this thread already.

When someone uses a term I am unfamiliar with, I ask them what they mean. When someone phrases something in a way that’s unclear to me, I ask them to clarify.

We all use jargon. Some is more widely accepted and is never questioned. This is because it was used frequently enough to become accepted. Asking folks to stop using such terms before they’re widely accepted disrupts that process. I don’t think it’s a healthy way to handle it.



I’m sure this is true, but really, it’s too bad for those people. Like, scene framing as a term has nothing to do with theater. So your discomfort with it… the connotations that you perceive… is specific to you.

Rather than asking everyone else to change their approach to the discussion, you should change yours.

I can accept it without being happy about it, and if I am unhappy about it I see no reason to pretend I am.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think "scene framing" is good jargon as it is pretty clear and non-pretentious. I dislike some of the forgey terminology, but this one is fine.

Like I said, I can accept it. I just don't like narrative terminology being used in discussions involving non-narrative games.

 

[Umbran]

Translated: 'it has story game cooties'

Mod Note:
Please do not expect anyone to have great patience with your belittling and dismissive mode of engagement.

 

[Lanefan]

Translated: 'it has story game cooties'

'Cooties' being the jargon term for ... ???

 

[Corinnguard]

'Cooties' being the jargon term for ... ???

Well in RL, 'cooties' are another name for body lice. But since we're dealing with an interactive story (aka a RPG), it could be referring to a nasty planar parasite.