D&D 4E How would 4E improve my game?

[Mathew_Freeman]

I believe he is talking about the Lich template, one of the power descriptions does not specify Arcane powers, so it could be applied to a fighters Exploits...

Yes - but the Lich doesn't have any martial exploits. Unless the DM alters the Lich to give it a martial exploit, the argument is moot.

And if you're altering something to make your argument work, it's a pretty poor argument.

 

[ve4grm]

4E still expects you to have +X Magical weapons and armor at certain levels and also expects (but theoretically not requires you to if you trust the Devs on this) to have filled all your magic item slots at the end of the Heroic Tier.

While it does expect it, it shouldn't be necessary. Aside from weapon, armour, and neck/shoulders for defenses, nothing gives flat bonuses any more.

Additional magic items give options instead. But options don't increase the overall power level of a game, and thus aren't completely necessary.

So you could easily do, say, Bilbo Baggins with a 4e item set. Sting, mithral shirt, missing an amulet but has the ring.

How about Frodo? Sting, shirt, ring, elf cloak, leaves of Lorien, and more minor things. Not too shabby.

Some are still difficult, like Conan, because they don't really use magic items at all. But altogether, it will be easier in 4e than 3e.

As a side note, I'm still trying to find all these "bling" pictures that are mentioned.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/RacesNClasses_Gallery/108652.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/RacesNClasses_Gallery/111106.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/RacesNClasses_Gallery/111108.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/RacesNClasses_Gallery/111128.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/RacesNClasses_Gallery/112909.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/RacesNClasses_Gallery/112911.jpg

The closest to "bling" is the last one, with an electrically charged axe. But even then, there's weapon, armour, shield, and nothing else. The dragonborn one is downright minimalist.

I suppose there's this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/RacesNClasses_Gallery/111089.jpg
which includes a couple potions and a backpack.

And there's this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/RacesNClasses_Gallery/111145.jpg
which shows a fighter getting fancy, elaborate armour around epic level. (But really, he should have some nice armour by epic level.)

But none of these are "bling" to me, at all. Can anyone elaborate?

 

[Jack99]

4E still expects you to have +X Magical weapons and armor at certain levels and also expects (but theoretically not requires you to if you trust the Devs on this) to have filled all your magic item slots at the end of the Heroic Tier.

Okay, so the game actually has guidelines on how much magic gear the DM should give his players, in order to keep the combats balanced and therefore fun.

Really, what were they thinking, giving us advice on how to do things. Bad design, really bad design..

 

[Derren]

Yes - but the Lich doesn't have any martial exploits. Unless the DM alters the Lich to give it a martial exploit, the argument is moot.

And if you're altering something to make your argument work, it's a pretty poor argument.

The Lich is a template and now guess what happens when its applied to a creature which has a martial exploit (no rule which would prevent that).

Additional magic items give options instead. But options don't increase the overall power level of a game, and thus aren't completely necessary.

That worked really well with 3E prestige classes, didn't it?

Okay, so the game actually has guidelines on how much magic gear the DM should give his players, in order to keep the combats balanced and therefore fun.

Really, what were they thinking, giving us advice on how to do things. Bad design, really bad design..

And of course the monsters are build with that magic item bonus in mind as a little reminder that it is a very very good idea to follow this guideline....

 

[Jack99]

And of course the monsters are build with that magic item bonus in mind as a little reminder that it is a very very good idea to follow this guideline....

Derren, you should focus your hatred of 4e into something more positive. You could probably solve world hunger or find the cure for cancer in no time, if you poured this much energy into it.



Anyway, you can pretty much do whatever you want. We are talking about guidelines, nothing more. If you love your magic bling-bling, you can go Monty Haul on your players' collective butts. No one, including the 4e books, says you can not do this.

Why on earth you are wasting time complaining about guidelines to balance the game? Would you rather have a game with no balance or no guidelines at all?

 

[Derren]

Anyway, you can pretty much do whatever you want. We are talking about guidelines, nothing more. If you love your magic bling-bling, you can go Monty Haul on your players' collective butts. No one, including the 4e books, says you can not do this.

Just like in 3E....

 

[hong]

Just like in 3E....

Derren has forgotten what he was trying to argue! Run away!!1!

 

[Knightlord]

Just like in 3E....

And? What's your point?

That 4E should have never been developed and there is nothing wrong with 3E?

To be honest, Derren, I respect the fact that you do not seemingly like the idea of 4E, but some of the arguments you are making about it seem to lack substance and feel like they are being argued "just to be argued".

If you don't like it, friend, then don't play it.

 

[Jack99]

Just like in 3E....

Either you are arguing that 4e sucks, or that it is no different than 3e.. Or maybe you are arguing that it is no different than 3e and therefore sucks? Which is it?

Besides, I have never said that this part of 3e was bad. I think it was great to have some sort of wealth and thus magical wealth guidelines. Problem was that in order to function at level 7+ (arbitrary) you would need to funnel your funds into very specific items.

With the new and superior (boring according to you) monster design, 4e seems to avoid many of those pitfalls, and will thus enable both DM and players to be more creative, when making/acquiring/stealing magical items.

 

[Derren]

Either you are arguing that 4e sucks, or that it is no different than 3e.. Or maybe you are arguing that it is no different than 3e and therefore sucks? Which is it?

I am just correcting your mistakes.