D&D 5E How would I build a Net-and-Trident Warrior?

[doctorbadwolf]

That's reasonable. I wasn't suggesting that there weren't answers, only that I dislike the system because it requires a bunch of noodling to make it make sense (IMO, naturally). I feel like it could be a lot tighter and better folded into the actual combat rules.

Like using attack math instead of skill math if they’re gonna make NPCs garbage at skills?
That would make sense.

 

[Fenris-77]

Like using attack math instead of skill math if they’re gonna make NPCs garbage at skills?
That would make sense.

Well, yeah, something like that. It's also solves the "Thieves and Bards are the best grapplers" problem. The main reason I find the idea interesting is that if grappling used attack math you could find a bunch of interesting ways to fold it into combat. In other games the sort of thing I'm thinking about might be called stunts. I might even go so far as to say 'combos'. IDK, but there's a glimmer of something interesting there IMO.

 

[Greg K]

Does it need to be official, because there are several free gladiator fighter archetypes on the web.

 

[BookTenTiger]

Does it need to be official, because there are several free gladiator fighter archetypes on the web.

For me, this is just a theory thread (I'm not making a new character any time soon), so the fun is finding ways to use the current rule system.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well, yeah, something like that. It's also solves the "Thieves and Bards are the best grapplers" problem. The main reason I find the idea interesting is that if grappling used attack math you could find a bunch of interesting ways to fold it into combat. In other games the sort of thing I'm thinking about might be called stunts. I might even go so far as to say 'combos'. IDK, but there's a glimmer of something interesting there IMO.

I think there is something there, for sure. I mean it’s already a “special attack”. OTOH I like that Athletics relates to grappling. Maybe you have proficiency in grapple and shove attacks if you have proficiency in Athletics?

The other way to go is to make it so that every class can get expertise in at least one skill rather than making it a special rogue and bard thing.

 

[ECMO3]

Well, yeah, something like that. It's also solves the "Thieves and Bards are the best grapplers" problem.

I don't see this as a problem. To start with it is only true if said Thief or Bard invests in strength. Without a heavy strength investment they can be good but not the best. A strength-based martial with athletics proficiency would be better than an 8-strength Bard with expertise until 17th level when PB hits +6, at which point they would be tied at +11. The Bard will never actually be better. If you consider reliable talent then the 8-strength Rogue with +7 and reliable talent at 11th level will average 19.75, slightly higher than the 19.5 averaged by the martial with a +9.

Also both Rune Knights and Barbarians can get nearly at-will advantage which is generally better than expertise and Rune Knights can turn large size which lets them grapple Giants and Dragons and such.

That said if the Rogue takes expertise he should be generally better than anyone else, it would be bad to undo this and would severely nerf the Rogue. If someone else wants that mutliclass or take a feat to get it!

 

[Fenris-77]

I was talking about expertise and also not a STR dump as you describe. I probably should have mentioned that is is specifically Lore Bards I was indexing, as they also get expertise. Both those classes can also get various sorts of advantage from racial abilities as well. Anyway, it's a annoyance for me more than a huge problem. I just don't like the way it feels.

 

[ECMO3]

I was talking about expertise and also not a STR dump as you describe. I probably should have mentioned that is is specifically Lore Bards I was indexing, as they also get expertise. Both those classes can also get various sorts of advantage from racial abilities as well. Anyway, it's a annoyance for me more than a huge problem. I just don't like the way it feels.

Copy. I love the way it feels, I guess that is where we are different . I play mostly Rogues or Rogue multi-classes and almost always have expertise in athletics for my character. With bonus action dash it is really effective too.

 

[Fenris-77]

Copy. I love the way it feels, I guess that is where we are different . I play mostly Rogues or Rogue multi-classes and almost always have expertise in athletics for my character. With bonus action dash it is really effective too.

Yeah, that makes sense. What doesn't make sense for me is how hard a fighter needs to work to just stay even, when, let's be honest, they should probably be top of the pile. As I'm thinking about it, I may even just add Double Proficiency bonus to Athletics checks for grappling to the fighter (or maybe just the Champion) and go home happy.

 

[ECMO3]

The way I interpret the Moving a Grappled Creature rules, the attacker can drag the creature to the cliff, but it takes a shove to push them off since Shoving a Creature is the rule that resolves pushing someone away from you. So that's two separate attacks to make it happen. A lot of DMs just say they're dragged off the cliff by grapple-drag-release, but I don't rule it that way. For someone with Extra Attack, they can still get it done on their turn if they succeed at both checks. For anyone else, you have to set it up on one turn and shove the next.

So in our game you have to either shove them or drag them off the cliff (both of you). So there are two ways to do it without shove. Either drag them off, end the grapple after you are off and then feather fall yourself as a reaction (and not them) or drag them off and then misty step back on the ground as a bonus action.