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How would you build a Death Knight?
- Thread starter Dash Dannigan
- Start date
moritheil
First Post
szilard said:
I'm well aware of the paladin variants and necropolitan (it costs a flat amount of xp, incidentally); I just want a canonical angle on more powerful Death Knights.
I suppose I can just hand wave it IMC since Death Knights are created with divine intervention. But I would feel bad if the party went up against one without knowing just how powerful they were and got TPKed as a result. I'll have to have some sort of baseline that I can feed them info about when they make knowledge checks.
Darth Vyce
First Post
Here is something that might work for you ...
Race: Human
Template: Necropolitan (LM/LA+0)
Martial Monk(Dragon310) 2/Eldritch Warrior Fighter 18(Dragon355)
BaB: 19
Saves: 14/9/9
HD: 20d12
Feat Suggestions
* LM = Libris Mortis
With this basic setup you will be able to mimic all of the abilities that you mention in your OP. The cool thing about this setup is that you will be able to use evasion if you can purchase some mithril full plate (the armored savant variant ability counts armor as one level lighter so heavy armor is medium etc). Because you are undead you have a number of interesting options open to you, one of which is the Eviscerator feat tree ... which will be loads of fun at higher levels.
The undead leadership or leadership feat will cover the mount.
You also specified in your OP that he will be "sealed" inside his armor. The eldritch warrior fighter variant will allow you to expand upon that idea. There are some interesting abilities such as spell resistance and bonuses to AC while wearing a specific set of armor.
If you want your knight to be silent make sure to pick up the able learner feat. This way you will be able to max out your hide and move silently skills. Throw in a suit of silent/shadow mithril full plate and your enemies will never see ya coming.
Lastly, you will have roughly 11 bonus feats plus an extra one for being human!
Well hope that helps some.
Race: Human
Template: Necropolitan (LM/LA+0)
Martial Monk(Dragon310) 2/Eldritch Warrior Fighter 18(Dragon355)
BaB: 19
Saves: 14/9/9
HD: 20d12
Feat Suggestions
- Armored Savant*
- Daunting Presence
- Death Master
- Eviscerator
- Improved Critical
- Postive Energy Resistance
- Undead Leadership or Leadership
- Improved Toughness
- Improved Turn Resistance (LM)
* LM = Libris Mortis
With this basic setup you will be able to mimic all of the abilities that you mention in your OP. The cool thing about this setup is that you will be able to use evasion if you can purchase some mithril full plate (the armored savant variant ability counts armor as one level lighter so heavy armor is medium etc). Because you are undead you have a number of interesting options open to you, one of which is the Eviscerator feat tree ... which will be loads of fun at higher levels.
The undead leadership or leadership feat will cover the mount.You also specified in your OP that he will be "sealed" inside his armor. The eldritch warrior fighter variant will allow you to expand upon that idea. There are some interesting abilities such as spell resistance and bonuses to AC while wearing a specific set of armor.
If you want your knight to be silent make sure to pick up the able learner feat. This way you will be able to max out your hide and move silently skills. Throw in a suit of silent/shadow mithril full plate and your enemies will never see ya coming.
Lastly, you will have roughly 11 bonus feats plus an extra one for being human!
Well hope that helps some.
moritheil
First Post
Ok, I should clarify what I am trying to do. MY PLAYERS, DO NOT READ THIS.
[sblock]See, the thing is, I'm not building a standard death knight - I added the template to a bard with Snowflake Wardance, pumped Cha sky-high, and built a diplomat out of it.
The theme of this campaign is that people aren't what they seem.
Now, one of the player characters (a babau, since this is a demon campaign) has beef with her. Always has. She acts way too confident for a normal human (which she is disguised as for the sake of looking presentable, though she comes from a country made of undead - he isn't putting two and two together.) He stopped playing, so I was going to make a point by having him challenge her to a duel and get ruined spectacularly. I don't know if Power Word, Kill is canonically based off the character level of the death knight, though, in which case I might actually have to make her higher than level 12 (the party is 14; death knight is +2 CR.) I prefer to do things at equal CR if at all possible; it just seems distasteful to me to throw in a significantly higher CR NPC.[/sblock]
EDIT: I was waffling between Paladin of Tyranny and Blackguard; I would just put minimum levels in for Divine Grace, since melee prowess is not the main thrust of the build here. I'd love to hear your opinions on that.
[sblock]See, the thing is, I'm not building a standard death knight - I added the template to a bard with Snowflake Wardance, pumped Cha sky-high, and built a diplomat out of it.
The theme of this campaign is that people aren't what they seem.
Now, one of the player characters (a babau, since this is a demon campaign) has beef with her. Always has. She acts way too confident for a normal human (which she is disguised as for the sake of looking presentable, though she comes from a country made of undead - he isn't putting two and two together.) He stopped playing, so I was going to make a point by having him challenge her to a duel and get ruined spectacularly. I don't know if Power Word, Kill is canonically based off the character level of the death knight, though, in which case I might actually have to make her higher than level 12 (the party is 14; death knight is +2 CR.) I prefer to do things at equal CR if at all possible; it just seems distasteful to me to throw in a significantly higher CR NPC.[/sblock]
EDIT: I was waffling between Paladin of Tyranny and Blackguard; I would just put minimum levels in for Divine Grace, since melee prowess is not the main thrust of the build here. I'd love to hear your opinions on that.
Last edited:
Darth Vyce
First Post
I have blocked out my build just in case ...
[sblock]
Paladin of Tyranny 4/Bard 8
Feats
This one is pretty simple and straight forward ... use a bastard sword 1-handed (I didn't include the exotic weapon proficiency feat as my group uses weapon groups but if you have to take the feat simply take a flaw ... maybe frivolous performer [Dragon3??]) then activate your snowflake wardance + divine might. This way you will add your Charisma to both attack and damage.
Make sure to use inspirational boost (SpC) so that your bardic music bonus from inspire courage is +3 instead of +2.
The above build will also let you wear up to mithril full plate without hampering your bard spells.[/sblock]
Anyhoo, hope this helps.
[sblock]
Paladin of Tyranny 4/Bard 8
- BaB: 10
- CL: 8 (12)
- Saves: 6/7/7 + Charisma
Feats
- Lingering Song[h]
- Snowflake Wardance
- Practised Caster
- Power Attack
- Divine Might
- Battlecaster
This one is pretty simple and straight forward ... use a bastard sword 1-handed (I didn't include the exotic weapon proficiency feat as my group uses weapon groups but if you have to take the feat simply take a flaw ... maybe frivolous performer [Dragon3??]) then activate your snowflake wardance + divine might. This way you will add your Charisma to both attack and damage.
Make sure to use inspirational boost (SpC) so that your bardic music bonus from inspire courage is +3 instead of +2.
The above build will also let you wear up to mithril full plate without hampering your bard spells.[/sblock]
Anyhoo, hope this helps.
Drowbane
First Post
I recommend the DLCS version of MMII's death knight. Its more true to the novels / 2e's DK.
I'm digging the ability to raise my slain foes (any humanoid corpse, really) as Skeletal Warriors.
Good times...
edit: the DLCS deathknight is also LA +5 but gives a few more goodies... MMII's a bit light (compared to say... Ghost).
I'm digging the ability to raise my slain foes (any humanoid corpse, really) as Skeletal Warriors.
Good times...
edit: the DLCS deathknight is also LA +5 but gives a few more goodies... MMII's a bit light (compared to say... Ghost).
moritheil
First Post
Drowbane said:
Yeah, I always thought Death Knight was a bit low on goodies for the LA. Not so much a problem at CR +2, but LA 5 is even more expensive than lichdom and leaves something to be desired.
Quartz said:
Again, I feel that you aren't quite grasping what I had in mind. It's less of a "how do I build a stereotypical death knight" question and more of a "I have a death knight already built; what rules justify giving her the ability to take apart a melee monster and yet still be a consummate diplomat?" I'm particularly looking for details. For example, one thing I would probably have her do against the babau is use her eldritch fireball, since it's (Su) according to the MMII template and thus she won't have to make caster level checks to get through SR.
As I mentioned already in the sblock, this character is a diplomat first and foremost; she is a death knight because it only made sense (the country she represents is full of undead, so it was a choice between that, ghost, and vampire.) I guess if I wanted additional SLAs on her I could turn to Spell-Stitched or Evolved, but I was wondering if there was some treatment of Death Knights that does that already without my having to put more HD into CR adjustments. (Yes there is, in Dragonlance, but does it specifically give something that might affect an advanced demon without having much chance of being resisted/ignored/tied up in SR? If not, then it isn't helpful for what I have in mind.)
Does anyone want to get into the finer points of using blackguard vs. paladin of tyranny levels? I'd still like some sort of rigorous treatment of that.
Last edited:
moritheil
First Post
Darth Vyce said:I have blocked out my build just in case ...
[sblock]
Paladin of Tyranny 4/Bard 8
- BaB: 10
- CL: 8 (12)
- Saves: 6/7/7 + Charisma
Feats
- Lingering Song[h]
- Snowflake Wardance
- Practised Caster
- Power Attack
- Divine Might
- Battlecaster
This one is pretty simple and straight forward ... use a bastard sword 1-handed (I didn't include the exotic weapon proficiency feat as my group uses weapon groups but if you have to take the feat simply take a flaw ... maybe frivolous performer [Dragon3??]) then activate your snowflake wardance + divine might. This way you will add your Charisma to both attack and damage.
Make sure to use inspirational boost (SpC) so that your bardic music bonus from inspire courage is +3 instead of +2.
The above build will also let you wear up to mithril full plate without hampering your bard spells.[/sblock]
Anyhoo, hope this helps.
Hmm, OK, so paladin 4 for the divine feats. Understandable. Why bard 8? I was personally thinking of having a few levels of bard and then putting the remainder of levels in some PrC (I think the build she currently has is Mourner, which is very appropriate in a country full of undead.)
Power Attack seems . . . dubious to me without the ability to attack touch AC. BAB+10, +2 str, +6 or 7 cha leaves only +19 to attack, far from a guaranteed hit. I suppose I could get wraithstrike through some shenanigans and a feat, and ditch battlecaster.
Thanks; it does help me think!
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