How would YOU change Shadowdark?

[Scribe]

I dont understand the disagreement here really.

SD is very clearly 'based on D&D', up to and including aspects of 5e. That....should be self evident really.

That doesnt mean its a clone, or whatever. Its the platonic ideal of "D&D".

 

[Bill Zebub]

I dont understand the disagreement here really.

SD is very clearly 'based on D&D', up to and including aspects of 5e. That....should be self evident really.

That doesnt mean its a clone, or whatever. Its the platonic ideal of "D&D".

The starting point was a claim that it was outrageous to position your game as "D&D-like" but not have Vancian magic.

EDIT: In retrospect, instead of focusing on the phrase "D&D like"....which I have never heard Kelsey say...I should just have stayed on the point that Vancian magic is not a requirement of D&D-adjacency.

@Theory of Games And I'm still hoping you'll explain why the SD spell mechanics are "bad design" and not just something you personally don't like.

 

[TiQuinn]

To repeat: I am not the poster who said it was badwrongfun to use a standard array, or otherwise "build" characters with higher than average scores. I explained why I, a longtime D&D optimizer, really enjoy the SD approach and why the randomness is an integral part of it.

So, yes, it "matters" but not so much that it breaks the game if you don't use it.

Did I say you were the poster who said it was badwrongfun?

You stated why you prefer rolling, I've stated why people may not prefer rolling.

You said you sort of question why someone would choose Shadowdark instead of just continuing to play D&D, and I answered.

Then you said, no no no, I'm not saying you're causing harm, I just don't get why you want to replicate the D&D experience. Again, I answered.

So let me ask you this? What do you mean by "replicating the D&D experience?" All I've been talking about is I can see why someone wouldn't want to roll 3d6. I don't see that as fundamental to Shadowdark any more than standard array is fundamental to D&D, and what's more, who cares -- what is fundamental to Shadowdark is a house rules, follow your bliss, try different things mentality. What I do see in all of this is someone who's being just a wee bit gatekeep-y.

There's very much an "Ew, you want to do THAT? Why don't you go play that other game? But hey you do you..." vibe to your post.

I agree with Reynard - I don't think you're being very careful with your phrasing.

 

[DarkCrisis]

That always struck me as strange, given how different the probabilities are on the d20 vs 3d6. That is one of the reason i think d20+mod vs DC makes more sense than the old "roll under the stat" method.

Comes off as just more charts and #s for the DM to deal with when you can just easily do "Roll under a stat." Ease of use is a big plus to me.

 

[Scribe]

The starting point was a claim that it was outrageous to position your game as "D&D-like" but not have Vancian magic.

EDIT: In retrospect, instead of focusing on the phrase "D&D like"....which I have never heard Kelsey say...I should just have stayed on the point that Vancian magic is not a requirement of D&D-adjacency.

@Theory of Games And I'm still hoping you'll explain why the SD spell mechanics are "bad design" and not just something you personally don't like.

I mean if Vancian casting is a requirement, does 5e even meet that bar? lol

 

[Bill Zebub]

I mean if Vancian casting is a requirement, does 5e even meet that bar? lol

Yeah, good point.

It's Vancian-like.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Did I say you were the poster who said it was badwrongfun?

You stated why you prefer rolling, I've stated why people may not prefer rolling.

You said you sort of question why someone would choose Shadowdark instead of just continuing to play D&D, and I answered.

Then you said, no no no, I'm not saying you're causing harm, I just don't get why you want to replicate the D&D experience. Again, I answered.

So let me ask you this? What do you mean by "replicating the D&D experience?" All I've been talking about is I can see why someone wouldn't want to roll 3d6. I don't see that as fundamental to Shadowdark any more than standard array is fundamental to D&D, and what's more, who cares -- what is fundamental to Shadowdark is a house rules, follow your bliss, try different things mentality. What I do see in all of this is someone who's being just a wee bit gatekeep-y.

There's very much an "Ew, you want to do THAT? Why don't you go play that other game? But hey you do you..." vibe to your post.

I agree with Reynard - I don't think you're being very careful with your phrasing.

Whatever, man. Happy gaming.

 

[TiQuinn]

Whatever, man. Happy gaming.

Yes, thank you, whatever. You do you.

 

[Arilyn]

Actually, she mentions 5e more than older editions. But while you can't admit the influence, she clearly does.

Yes, of course SD has 5e influences, a lot of them. It is also influenced by older D&D, Index Card RPG and DCC. The roll to cast comes from Index Card and DCC.

Kelsey says she spent a lot of time and thought on the spellcasting system. I've played and run a lot of SD, and have no problems with spellcasting. The spell descriptions are short and flavourful. Rolling a critical let's you double damage, range, or effect. Spellcaster's choice. There is the added tension of failing a roll with critical failures being particularly dangerous for the wizard, or maybe just embarrassing.

It's definitely not lazy design or plunked in as an after thought. It works really well. You might personally not like it, but that's not a weakness of the system.

 

[TiQuinn]

Yes, of course SD has 5e influences, a lot of them. It is also influenced by older D&D, Index Card RPG and DCC. The roll to cast comes from Index Card and DCC.

Kelsey says she spent a lot of time and thought on the spellcasting system. I've played and run a lot of SD, and have no problems with spellcasting. The spell descriptions are short and flavourful. Rolling a critical let's you double damage, range, or effect. Spellcaster's choice. There is the added tension of failing a roll with critical failures being particularly dangerous for the wizard, or maybe just embarrassing.

It's definitely not lazy design or plunked in as an after thought. It works really well. You might personally not like it, but that's not a weakness of the system.

Having your goblin wizard explode because he tried casting a sleep spell was probably the most I've spent laughing in the past year!