How would YOU change Shadowdark?

Comes off as just more charts and #s for the DM to deal with when you can just easily do "Roll under a stat." Ease of use is a big plus to me.
There is a subtle but interesting distinction between Dcs and "roll under" that i think is under appreciated. It revolves around "what defines difficulty" in an external vs internal locus of control sort of way, respectively. In the DC mindset, your stat has a small impact on your chance of success, but the actual difficulty of that thing is based on what IT is (either in the narrative or the simulated world, but that is a different issue). With "roll under stat" difficulty is nearly entirely built around ones capabilities. All climbs are equally difficult (within some small range of modifiers); what really matters is the natural talent of the climber.

From a game design and theory standpoint, I always thought this was an interesting question and debate. As stated, I tend to fall on the side of DCs -- that is, the simulated reality of the thing defining how difficult it is.

EXCEPT, I like old school saving throws better, where the ability to make a saving throw is almost entirely defined by the capacity of the character. Saving throws are sorts of measures of heroism, so it makes sense to me that they are "internal."

Of course, this has almost nothing to do with Shadowdark. Your post just got me thinking about it.
 

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But while you can't admit the influence, she clearly does.

Did you edit and append that last sentence? I don't recall seeing it.

I'll reverse your question and ask: if it's only "influence" (as opposed to "D&D-like") then why is it such a crime to not include Vancian casting?
 

There is a subtle but interesting distinction between Dcs and "roll under" that i think is under appreciated. It revolves around "what defines difficulty" in an external vs internal locus of control sort of way, respectively. In the DC mindset, your stat has a small impact on your chance of success, but the actual difficulty of that thing is based on what IT is (either in the narrative or the simulated world, but that is a different issue). With "roll under stat" difficulty is nearly entirely built around ones capabilities. All climbs are equally difficult (within some small range of modifiers); what really matters is the natural talent of the climber.

From a game design and theory standpoint, I always thought this was an interesting question and debate. As stated, I tend to fall on the side of DCs -- that is, the simulated reality of the thing defining how difficult it is.

Yeah, that's why I wrote (in a perhaps overly dismissive way) that SD is not "roll under". It's not a trivial distinction.

Interestingly (and coincidentally since it is being discussed in parallel) the magic system does the opposite: the difficulty of casting a spell (in most cases) has nothing to do with target, it's 100% about the player. The DC is set by the spell itself, not the circumstances.
 

Yeah, that's why I wrote (in a perhaps overly dismissive way) that SD is not "roll under". It's not a trivial distinction.

Interestingly (and coincidentally since it is being discussed in parallel) the magic system does the opposite: the difficulty of casting a spell (in most cases) has nothing to do with target, it's 100% about the player. The DC is set by the spell itself, not the circumstances.
Or the monster. ;)

More than getting one shotted by a goblin, I think one of the biggest surprises a player ever got during their first SD experience at my table was not getting a saving throw. "Nope, sorry, it succeeded at its casting check. You are webbed."
 

Or the monster. ;)

More than getting one shotted by a goblin, I think one of the biggest surprises a player ever got during their first SD experience at my table was not getting a saving throw. "Nope, sorry, it succeeded at its casting check. You are webbed."

Yes, absolutely! I shouldn't have restricted it to players.
 

See I don’t think k it works that way. So if f the thief is a halfling they can turn invisible and then backstab. Thief has a smoke bomb and turn after they sneak attack. It is somewhat vague and Kelsey has had to clarify it as the book is vague
You aren't disagreeing.

If the goblins can't see you -- for whatever reason, including the halfling's hide ability or the smoke bomb, etc. -- you can backstab.
 



Haha I’m asking for it in the rules and it’s not clear in the rules. I’m house ruling literally on the fly for a lot

It is clear, ask your DM or make a ruling, thats all it takes.

Is the target aware of the attack?

There are MANY examples where in a boxing match, one fighter doesnt see the punch coming, its hidden behind their own glove. They are not 'aware' of that attack coming, even while they are in the active 1 on 1 fight! These are also often seen as the most damaging, dangerous punches, because the fighter is 'not aware' its coming, and so cannot roll with it.

Its the same principle.
 

Right but you sound like an experienced gm but for some this could be their first time as they came here due to the kickstarter news

I don’t even think there’s a blurb in the book about just go with your gut or go with Todd Howard it just works
 

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