How would you change the new Star Wars trilogy
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
Can I assume we are okay with Rise of Skywalker spoilers here?
My primary goal would be to smooth out the transitions between the three films. It feels like Abrams had an idea for how the trilogy should go, and Johnson had an idea for how the trilogy should go, and they were... uh... not on the same page.
One example is the handling of the archvillains. In "The Force Awakens," Supreme Leader Snoke is a big mystery villain, seen only in hologram and only briefly. One would expect "The Last Jedi" to elaborate on where he came from and what his deal was; instead, he cackled and gloated for a bit, and then he got whacked by Kylo Ren, and that was that. "Rise of Skywalker" then had the job of a) explaining where Snoke came from, and b) introducing Palpatine as the Real Final Boss, and c) doing all this super fast at the start of the movie so it could get on with the plot. This was not a good situation to be in.
So, I would insert a few scenes into "Last Jedi" indicating that Snoke is a puppet, created by some shadowy entity behind the scenes to serve as a figurehead for the First Order and to seduce Ben Solo to the Dark Side. And I would close the movie on Palpatine's laughter. That would set up "Rise" much better.
Then there are the romantic subplots. I'm pretty okay with how the Rey/Ren one turned out: There was obvious chemistry there, but it was just as obvious that the movies could not possibly end with Rey and Ren riding off into the sunset together--Kylo Ren killing his father was a point of no return for the character. So, Ren turns away from the Dark Side, gets one kiss with Rey, and falls over dead. Rey then goes and adopts herself into the Skywalker family to retroactively continue the tradition of Skywalkers kissing each other, and all is right with the world.
Unfortunately, Finn's romances did not get resolved nearly as well. In "Force Awakens," he is clearly crushing on Rey. Then in "Last Jedi," there is the start of something with Rose. This gets unceremoniously dropped in "Rise" and he is back to crushing on Rey, which... goes nowhere. This one is definitely on "Rise of Skywalker" to fix. Finn just needs a few scenes where he is going back and forth between his crush on Rey and his feelings for Rose, finally settles on Rose (I'm not really seeing the Rey/Finn pairing, Finn/Rose works much better), and they get a hug and kiss at the end.
And the little kid using the Force at the end of "Last Jedi"--that kid needs to show up in "Rise" somewhere, somehow, doing something. Or he needs to not be there in "Jedi." Pick one, don't care which.
There are a bunch of these little hiccups between movies (Rey's parentage is another), all of which could be relatively easily smoothed out to greatly improve the trilogy as a whole.
I also have some issues with "Last Jedi" specifically, but those only impact "Last Jedi" and don't interfere with the larger arc of the trilogy, so they are less important to address. Let's just say we would spend a lot less time in the casino if I were the boss of Star Wars.
My primary goal would be to smooth out the transitions between the three films. It feels like Abrams had an idea for how the trilogy should go, and Johnson had an idea for how the trilogy should go, and they were... uh... not on the same page.
One example is the handling of the archvillains. In "The Force Awakens," Supreme Leader Snoke is a big mystery villain, seen only in hologram and only briefly. One would expect "The Last Jedi" to elaborate on where he came from and what his deal was; instead, he cackled and gloated for a bit, and then he got whacked by Kylo Ren, and that was that. "Rise of Skywalker" then had the job of a) explaining where Snoke came from, and b) introducing Palpatine as the Real Final Boss, and c) doing all this super fast at the start of the movie so it could get on with the plot. This was not a good situation to be in.
So, I would insert a few scenes into "Last Jedi" indicating that Snoke is a puppet, created by some shadowy entity behind the scenes to serve as a figurehead for the First Order and to seduce Ben Solo to the Dark Side. And I would close the movie on Palpatine's laughter. That would set up "Rise" much better.
Then there are the romantic subplots. I'm pretty okay with how the Rey/Ren one turned out: There was obvious chemistry there, but it was just as obvious that the movies could not possibly end with Rey and Ren riding off into the sunset together--Kylo Ren killing his father was a point of no return for the character. So, Ren turns away from the Dark Side, gets one kiss with Rey, and falls over dead. Rey then goes and adopts herself into the Skywalker family to retroactively continue the tradition of Skywalkers kissing each other, and all is right with the world.
Unfortunately, Finn's romances did not get resolved nearly as well. In "Force Awakens," he is clearly crushing on Rey. Then in "Last Jedi," there is the start of something with Rose. This gets unceremoniously dropped in "Rise" and he is back to crushing on Rey, which... goes nowhere. This one is definitely on "Rise of Skywalker" to fix. Finn just needs a few scenes where he is going back and forth between his crush on Rey and his feelings for Rose, finally settles on Rose (I'm not really seeing the Rey/Finn pairing, Finn/Rose works much better), and they get a hug and kiss at the end.
And the little kid using the Force at the end of "Last Jedi"--that kid needs to show up in "Rise" somewhere, somehow, doing something. Or he needs to not be there in "Jedi." Pick one, don't care which.
There are a bunch of these little hiccups between movies (Rey's parentage is another), all of which could be relatively easily smoothed out to greatly improve the trilogy as a whole.
I also have some issues with "Last Jedi" specifically, but those only impact "Last Jedi" and don't interfere with the larger arc of the trilogy, so they are less important to address. Let's just say we would spend a lot less time in the casino if I were the boss of Star Wars.
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Celebrim
Legend
Yet, pretty much the entire community likes 'The Mandalorian'.
The Star Wars universe is vast with complex stores that have been told over thousands of years featuring hundreds of cultures. I suspect you don't really know "the star wars universe people know and love". There was probably more material to start from than was in the Marvel universe.
Son of the Serpent
Pupil
Hard call but i think i have to say i agree this statement is actually true.
Ryujin
Legend
That's not much of a surprise to me. Back in the WEG Star Wars days I was the only one, in both my high school's games club and my personal gaming group, who wanted to play a Force User. Everyone else wanted to be some variation of a Scruffy Nerf Herder, or a Bounty Hunter.
BookBarbarian
Expert Long Rester
These might not be minor, but they'd could reuse a lot of existing footage. Seed Palpatine's return in TFA. Hint at Leia's Jedi training too. I like using Phasma for the traitor fight too.
I'd move the tracking down the Jedi hunter plot from TRoS to TLJ and have it replace the Canto Bight/Chase subplot it belongs more in a middle movie than an end movie IMHO.
So while Rey has tracked down Luke, our heroes Finn, Poe, Chewie, and now Rose are trying to track down Palpatine, before Kylo Ren can. Kylo has been tasked by Snoke to find Snoke's old apprentice (yes Snoke is Plagueis). There will be more tension as our mundane heroes are left to their own abilities to avoid sure death at the hands of Kylo. Finn meets the other ex stormtroopers on Endor and realizes he is not alone. Enter the Finn, Rose, Jannah love triangle.
Cut Luke almost killing Ben. Make the Knights of Ren the other students of Luke that were corrupted by Snoke. Luke can still be bitter old Luke, but he's more worried about his failings as a teacher, and the failings of the Jedi as a whole because of the corruption of so many students, not being an almost murderer. Luke ultimately realizes the rigidity of the Jedi led to their downfall and that Teaching children to deal with strong emotion and attachment is a far better idea than rejecting it. Kylo's connection to Rey stays much the same but occurs while he is hunting for Palpatine.
The climax occurs as Snoke and Kylo reach Palpatine's signal at the same time as Finn and crew, along with the Resistance fleet and Leia. The signal is coming from the Sith Wayfinder on the planet Crait. We see Kylo seize it but now he takes it to Snoke's command ship. Finn and Crew now board Snoke's ship to steal it rather than disable a tracker, as Poe leads an external assault of the ship which may or may not have space bombers. Still things look dire and Rey has to race to save her friends. Finn, poe, Leia and everybody is force to retreat to the surface. The Snoke throne room and most of what follows is much the same (except we'll see more of Phasma later).
TRoS still has Supreme Leader Kylo hunting down Palpatine and Rey and crew now hunting for another wayfinder on Kamiji. Kamiji Plot is largely unchanged but no it's here where Rey has her duel with Kylo and he destroys the Wayfinger, she wounds and heals him and steals his ship and heads back to lonely Luke island frustrated at her failures. I'd keep the Leia reaching out to Ben here to as I thought it was poignant.
With the Hunt for the Wayfinder plot cut short our heroes are now shown recruiting around the Galaxy for help against the secret fleet. Poe gathers old resistance fighters that have been scattered, and picks up unlikely recruits form his old smuggling contacts. When the reinforcements reach Exogal and we see it's not enough to stop the secret fleet, Finn, Jannah, and Rose hijack First Order communications to communicate with all the Stormtroopers and convince most of them to turn against their kidnappers. Phasma (looking very cool and slightly Vader-ish after TLJ) is about to kill our heroes when her own vanguard puts her down and takes their helmets off. Across enough of the First Order Fleet stormtroopers are rising up and overwhelming their officers and taking over ships. Poe and crew (with Lando and Wedge) knock out the signal ship and ground the fleet. NOw TRoS can feel a lot less frantic.
The Palpatine, Rey, and Ben finale can stay much the same, but cut the Reylo kiss. Keep whether their relationship was strictly platonic or unfulfilled romance a mystery for fans to debate for years to come.
I'd move the tracking down the Jedi hunter plot from TRoS to TLJ and have it replace the Canto Bight/Chase subplot it belongs more in a middle movie than an end movie IMHO.
So while Rey has tracked down Luke, our heroes Finn, Poe, Chewie, and now Rose are trying to track down Palpatine, before Kylo Ren can. Kylo has been tasked by Snoke to find Snoke's old apprentice (yes Snoke is Plagueis). There will be more tension as our mundane heroes are left to their own abilities to avoid sure death at the hands of Kylo. Finn meets the other ex stormtroopers on Endor and realizes he is not alone. Enter the Finn, Rose, Jannah love triangle.
Cut Luke almost killing Ben. Make the Knights of Ren the other students of Luke that were corrupted by Snoke. Luke can still be bitter old Luke, but he's more worried about his failings as a teacher, and the failings of the Jedi as a whole because of the corruption of so many students, not being an almost murderer. Luke ultimately realizes the rigidity of the Jedi led to their downfall and that Teaching children to deal with strong emotion and attachment is a far better idea than rejecting it. Kylo's connection to Rey stays much the same but occurs while he is hunting for Palpatine.
The climax occurs as Snoke and Kylo reach Palpatine's signal at the same time as Finn and crew, along with the Resistance fleet and Leia. The signal is coming from the Sith Wayfinder on the planet Crait. We see Kylo seize it but now he takes it to Snoke's command ship. Finn and Crew now board Snoke's ship to steal it rather than disable a tracker, as Poe leads an external assault of the ship which may or may not have space bombers. Still things look dire and Rey has to race to save her friends. Finn, poe, Leia and everybody is force to retreat to the surface. The Snoke throne room and most of what follows is much the same (except we'll see more of Phasma later).
TRoS still has Supreme Leader Kylo hunting down Palpatine and Rey and crew now hunting for another wayfinder on Kamiji. Kamiji Plot is largely unchanged but no it's here where Rey has her duel with Kylo and he destroys the Wayfinger, she wounds and heals him and steals his ship and heads back to lonely Luke island frustrated at her failures. I'd keep the Leia reaching out to Ben here to as I thought it was poignant.
With the Hunt for the Wayfinder plot cut short our heroes are now shown recruiting around the Galaxy for help against the secret fleet. Poe gathers old resistance fighters that have been scattered, and picks up unlikely recruits form his old smuggling contacts. When the reinforcements reach Exogal and we see it's not enough to stop the secret fleet, Finn, Jannah, and Rose hijack First Order communications to communicate with all the Stormtroopers and convince most of them to turn against their kidnappers. Phasma (looking very cool and slightly Vader-ish after TLJ) is about to kill our heroes when her own vanguard puts her down and takes their helmets off. Across enough of the First Order Fleet stormtroopers are rising up and overwhelming their officers and taking over ships. Poe and crew (with Lando and Wedge) knock out the signal ship and ground the fleet. NOw TRoS can feel a lot less frantic.
The Palpatine, Rey, and Ben finale can stay much the same, but cut the Reylo kiss. Keep whether their relationship was strictly platonic or unfulfilled romance a mystery for fans to debate for years to come.
ART!
Deluxe Unhuman
I feel like the first act of TROS throws too much at you, so I'd tidy that up a bit, editing-wise, or at the script stage.
That First Order & Resistance chase in TLJ lacks dynamics, so I'd have it take place in...not an asteroid belt, but something suspiciously like that, but with a surprise twist (every asteroid has a space worm, and they're hungry for starships!)
That First Order & Resistance chase in TLJ lacks dynamics, so I'd have it take place in...not an asteroid belt, but something suspiciously like that, but with a surprise twist (every asteroid has a space worm, and they're hungry for starships!)
Celebrim
Legend
Sure, but mostly you just have tight writing and solid character introductions. So you are making both the hard core fans and the casual fans happy.
I'm probably one of the Star Wars fans that are most 'meh' regarding the Mandalorian, because ultimately I think it's just a cartoon script treatment for one season that has been given a large live action budget and there are signs that they have no idea where the story is going to go from here.
But even I like it, and it's better written than the sequel trilogy.
One thing that I think shows how true that is, is that it's producing real merchandise buzz. The real measure of the sequels failure isn't the box office. The real measure of their failure is the relative lack of merchandise appeal. The reason Disney wanted the franchise is that they were a toy making machine. But the original characters are for the most part still the most marketable merchandise even to the younger generation they were targeting - because nothing really matches the coolness of Darth Vader and they know it. Even the prequels did a better job producing merchandise - Padme is frankly cooler as a toy than Rey is, and Rey is about the only bit of the sequels that is successful as a toy. This despite the obvious effort to create characters purely for the merchandise (or maybe because of it).
But "Baby Yoda" is gold. In fact, pretty much the whole series is merchandising gold.
Celebrim
Legend
Let's not ignore just how undynamic the space battle leading up to that scene is. It's the first Star Wars space battle that occurs in 2D space and which doesn't really make use of the Z dimension in the choreography. And it's the first Star Wars space battle since the Falcon escaped from the Death Star and fought the Tie Fighter pickets that had a basically fixed camera angle, and that was only because of the limits of what they could do with the mattes back then. It's almost a case study in how not to make a space battle exciting.
It's also another example of writer's and directors having studied Star Wars and what inspired it, and yet having no understanding of why it worked and are simply copy pasting. "Well, Lucas was inspired by WWII movie footage and that worked, so what if we did a space battle inspired by WWII high altitude bombing runs!" beats head against wall
"An office with no walls is dumb. But if Les has an office with no desk - now that's comedy."
I rewatched Rogue One, and the film does have it's flaws, but it's got the best final act since Return of the Jedi and it's space battle is so dynamic and well constructed. Notice the bombing runs in the Y-Wings. Also, notice the Star Destroyer warping into the battle in the line of ships warping out and how it DOES NOT GET WARP SPEED RAMMED AND DESTROYED BUT RATHER SHIPS OBEY CANON BY DROPPING OUT OF HYPERDRIVE.
MiraMels
Explorer
Minimal changes until the last movie. My only real disappointment with the trilogy is that I was hype to see a trilogy about Finn, Rey, and Poe, but the Rise of Skywalker retroactively made this a trilogy about Kylo Ren.
My changes would be:
Keep Rey as a nobody from nowhere, who is nevertheless still the most powerful living jedi
Keep Palpatine dead. Kylo is the new head of the First Order, let that play out.
Let Finn and Poe live out the character arcs they started in the first two movies.
Keep the movie about those three, have them fight and defeat the First Order.
Kill Kylo Ren. He's had multiple shots at redemption that he turned away from. Or if you want to keep a "Kylo Ren redemption" arc in there, have that happen because force ghost Luke keeps showing up to talk to him. But honestly, Kylo doesn't start a redemption arc until TRoS, so its going to be rushed no matter what you do.
Minor quibble, but like, Anikin Skywalker's lightsaber should also stay dead? It shattered into pieces on a spaceship that then got rammed by another spaceship.
My changes would be:
Keep Rey as a nobody from nowhere, who is nevertheless still the most powerful living jedi
Keep Palpatine dead. Kylo is the new head of the First Order, let that play out.
Let Finn and Poe live out the character arcs they started in the first two movies.
Keep the movie about those three, have them fight and defeat the First Order.
Kill Kylo Ren. He's had multiple shots at redemption that he turned away from. Or if you want to keep a "Kylo Ren redemption" arc in there, have that happen because force ghost Luke keeps showing up to talk to him. But honestly, Kylo doesn't start a redemption arc until TRoS, so its going to be rushed no matter what you do.
Minor quibble, but like, Anikin Skywalker's lightsaber should also stay dead? It shattered into pieces on a spaceship that then got rammed by another spaceship.
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