Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
You could be religious, but any kind of pact is basically slapping the existing gods in the face, and asking for new ones
D&D 5E How would you handle raising dead on a PC that didn't believe in the gods?
- Thread starter transtemporal
- Start date
You could be religious, but any kind of pact is basically slapping the existing gods in the face, and asking for new ones
Technically, the other PC's don't know until they attempt to get him rezzed. If he doesn't want to be rezzed, the spell fails and he makes a new character.
It could be treated as an RP opportunity if the player likes - his character has been to the afterlife, seen it with his own eyes, and returned to tell the tale. It could trigger a religious conversion ("I have seen the face of God, and she is a hottie."), or reaffirm his belief's ("I have seen the man behind the curtain! Open your eyes sheeple!")
It could be treated as an RP opportunity if the player likes - his character has been to the afterlife, seen it with his own eyes, and returned to tell the tale. It could trigger a religious conversion ("I have seen the face of God, and she is a hottie."), or reaffirm his belief's ("I have seen the man behind the curtain! Open your eyes sheeple!")
MarkB
Legend
It's more like paying extra to a specialist for a bespoke service, rather than buying off-the-peg.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
This. He said he is faithless. Which in Faerun applies to anyone who doesn't worship the gods, not doesn't believe in them. You can believe they're not gods, but you can't believe they're figments of your imagination. So, what's the problem OP? Unless you decide some god wants to take pity on him, show him that at least they are worth worshipping, then just let the PC stay dead and have the player reroll.
Well lucky for him all souls go to the fugue plane to await judgement from Kelimvor. That process can take 1000 years or so. Time has no meaning to the dead. If he is dead long enough to be judged, then his soul will be condemned to the wall of the faithless. Before that time, he can be brought back as the spell does not require you to be of that faith to be raised. He does have a choice on whether he does want to come back or not, and the ordeal may have him change his mind. From a roleplaying perspective, I would describe to him what he sees in dead and allow it be a harrowing experience. Allow him to witness his ultimate fate before coming back to life and see if he decides to change his mind.
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I guess the question really is how married are you to the silliest aspects of Faerun?
I met a god. Are you sure it wasn't just a 29th level Mary-Sue wizard? (Yes I'm sure, gods have limits Elminster does not. . .).
I can call down a pillar of flame because a god allows it. I can cast fireball, if I say I can do it because a god allows it does that make Blasto the god of the Milisecond Sun real? (Now lorewise 5E bards might be a real problem for the absolute gods of Faerun, because there is literally no spell a cleric can have that a bard cannot).
Even in my early days when I liked the setting I paid no attention to this silliness. Why you ask? Because Faerune is a part of the prime material plane, and the prime material plane does not dictate the realities of the outer planes. Clearly this is not true in the outer planes (as they are explicitly shared between worlds) so it can't be true in Faerune, whatever the priests tell you at tithing time. (Actually I just ignored it because it was silly, just like Elminster never saved the day when I was GMing, but this reason works too).
While I could see a given god refusing the power to his cleric to return a given person from the dead (though this is not actually a condition of the cleric class or the spell), this is true of any reason the god may have, atheism being no more interesting a reason than many, many others. And a different cleric may well get a different answer (You shouldn't have slept with Ares' paramour, but Hermes is feuding with him right now, so he will probably be willing to do it just to tick Ares off).
I don't think I have ever run a game where I would disallow someone from being raised from the dead for a background trait though.
I met a god. Are you sure it wasn't just a 29th level Mary-Sue wizard? (Yes I'm sure, gods have limits Elminster does not. . .).
I can call down a pillar of flame because a god allows it. I can cast fireball, if I say I can do it because a god allows it does that make Blasto the god of the Milisecond Sun real? (Now lorewise 5E bards might be a real problem for the absolute gods of Faerun, because there is literally no spell a cleric can have that a bard cannot).
Even in my early days when I liked the setting I paid no attention to this silliness. Why you ask? Because Faerune is a part of the prime material plane, and the prime material plane does not dictate the realities of the outer planes. Clearly this is not true in the outer planes (as they are explicitly shared between worlds) so it can't be true in Faerune, whatever the priests tell you at tithing time. (Actually I just ignored it because it was silly, just like Elminster never saved the day when I was GMing, but this reason works too).
While I could see a given god refusing the power to his cleric to return a given person from the dead (though this is not actually a condition of the cleric class or the spell), this is true of any reason the god may have, atheism being no more interesting a reason than many, many others. And a different cleric may well get a different answer (You shouldn't have slept with Ares' paramour, but Hermes is feuding with him right now, so he will probably be willing to do it just to tick Ares off).
I don't think I have ever run a game where I would disallow someone from being raised from the dead for a background trait though.
Aenghus
Explorer
I've generally allowed players to refuse resurrection in game, though more often than not when the player says they want a new PC then the group just buries the PC as appropriate. Sometimes a "Speak with Dead" spell was used to check if the PC wanted to be raised.
Also i consider strong player opinions interacting with the gameworld canon and whether some tweaks or adjustments of PCs and/or the gameworld might be called for to forestall future difficulties.
Also i consider strong player opinions interacting with the gameworld canon and whether some tweaks or adjustments of PCs and/or the gameworld might be called for to forestall future difficulties.
Sorcerers Apprentice
Hero
Note that Speak with Dead doesn't invoke the dead character's soul, just the animating spirit lingering in the body. So it can only tell you what the character thought about being resurrected at the time of death, if the soul has changed it's mind after seeing the afterlife, the corpse wouldn't know it.
Might as well just ask everyone in the party if they desire resurrection before they die, and save a spell slot
Sword of Spirit
Legend
Read the section on page 24 of the DMG, "Bringing Back the Dead".
If you are playing in Faerun, then instead of traveling to an Outer Plane, you end up in the Fugue Plane. Since you don't have a divine patron, no one comes to get you. If you hang around you will eventually be judged by Kelemvor and stuck into the Wall of the Faithless. This might take years. This gives you a lot of time to think. You can voluntarily decide to hire on with the devils and go to Hell (yes, they recruit). Otherwise, you just wait until DM-Kelemvor decides you get judged and aren't able to be raised from the dead. Short of some shenanigans in the Fugue Plane, your soul is free during this time.
Even in Faerun, if someone tries to bring you back in that time period, the same rules from the DMG apply. You know the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the caster, and can decide to come back or not.
By the book, it is absolutely irrelevent if your character believes in a deity. The DMG (and Forgotten Realms material for Faerun) describes pretty clearly what happens and what choices you have--belief or lack thereof doesn't enter into the equation of being raised.
End of that part.
Now, as to whether the deity of the cleric casting the spell will agree to bring you back, that is an entirely different aspect and moves heavily into personal setting design, DM style, etc. But as far as I can tell from the rules as written (and not just 5e, but correct me if 1e phrased it differently) once a cleric has a spell prepared/memorized, he has that spell in him, and he doesn't need his god to cast it.
After that is when the DM's decisions come in. Do gods actively step in to stop their clerics from casting certain spells that they already have prepared? Or do they just punish you for doing stuff against their ethos? When you prepare your spells, does your god have to grant them to you, or does being a cleric give you class abilities that are just as irrevocable as any other class? Some previous editions answered those questions (and not in the same way). 5e hasn't answered them, so it's up to the DM.
Personally, I think mythical religion provides some of the most interesting elements of D&D, and I like it to play a role in my games. I wouldn't feel a need to punish a character whose player wanted him/her to be atheist, though I would make sure the player understood how unusual it would be to be an atheist, and encourage them to have a good role-playing reason. Unless they are some sort of philosopher it would make a lot more sense to believe the gods exist but just not really care. Actively avoiding anything that we might consider religious would be pretty extreme, such D&D societies being saturated with religion everywhere, and quite possibly not making a clear line between "stuff having to do with religion" and "stuff not having to do with religion".
What I would do is allow the character to interact with their attitude or choice during the game. If they are actively atheist, it's something that will be constantly coming up. If they just don't care, they will see a world where a lot of good vs. evil and divine power happens, and can decide how their character deals with such situations. If the player is actively irritated by religion in the world, then they probably just wouldn't be a good fit for my table. I'd make sure they understand how that sort of stuff works before the game starts.
If you are playing in Faerun, then instead of traveling to an Outer Plane, you end up in the Fugue Plane. Since you don't have a divine patron, no one comes to get you. If you hang around you will eventually be judged by Kelemvor and stuck into the Wall of the Faithless. This might take years. This gives you a lot of time to think. You can voluntarily decide to hire on with the devils and go to Hell (yes, they recruit). Otherwise, you just wait until DM-Kelemvor decides you get judged and aren't able to be raised from the dead. Short of some shenanigans in the Fugue Plane, your soul is free during this time.
Even in Faerun, if someone tries to bring you back in that time period, the same rules from the DMG apply. You know the name, alignment, and patron deity (if any) of the caster, and can decide to come back or not.
By the book, it is absolutely irrelevent if your character believes in a deity. The DMG (and Forgotten Realms material for Faerun) describes pretty clearly what happens and what choices you have--belief or lack thereof doesn't enter into the equation of being raised.
End of that part.
Now, as to whether the deity of the cleric casting the spell will agree to bring you back, that is an entirely different aspect and moves heavily into personal setting design, DM style, etc. But as far as I can tell from the rules as written (and not just 5e, but correct me if 1e phrased it differently) once a cleric has a spell prepared/memorized, he has that spell in him, and he doesn't need his god to cast it.
After that is when the DM's decisions come in. Do gods actively step in to stop their clerics from casting certain spells that they already have prepared? Or do they just punish you for doing stuff against their ethos? When you prepare your spells, does your god have to grant them to you, or does being a cleric give you class abilities that are just as irrevocable as any other class? Some previous editions answered those questions (and not in the same way). 5e hasn't answered them, so it's up to the DM.
Personally, I think mythical religion provides some of the most interesting elements of D&D, and I like it to play a role in my games. I wouldn't feel a need to punish a character whose player wanted him/her to be atheist, though I would make sure the player understood how unusual it would be to be an atheist, and encourage them to have a good role-playing reason. Unless they are some sort of philosopher it would make a lot more sense to believe the gods exist but just not really care. Actively avoiding anything that we might consider religious would be pretty extreme, such D&D societies being saturated with religion everywhere, and quite possibly not making a clear line between "stuff having to do with religion" and "stuff not having to do with religion".
What I would do is allow the character to interact with their attitude or choice during the game. If they are actively atheist, it's something that will be constantly coming up. If they just don't care, they will see a world where a lot of good vs. evil and divine power happens, and can decide how their character deals with such situations. If the player is actively irritated by religion in the world, then they probably just wouldn't be a good fit for my table. I'd make sure they understand how that sort of stuff works before the game starts.
transtemporal
Explorer
Yeah, I guess that's why I posted this. On one hand, I'm not sure I like idea that the gods just "rubber stamp" all their followers requests. On the other, I'm not sure they'd care about the faith of one miscellaneous mortal either. Plus, its a bit micromanagey for me.
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