The D20 system isn't squeezing anything out. It's a consumer driven economy. If old systems are dying it is because people are not buying it. D20 is just a game. As long as people like it, it will live on. If someone develops a better system, it will prevail (yeah yeah yeah, you can get into marketing and the big comany vs. the little guy who comes up with the new game losing out or being bought out etc but in the end, the consumer decides.)
How Would you Rate Wizards of the Coast Overall?
- Thread starter Paul_Klein
- Start date
Leopold
NKL4LYFE
the key here is SRD and OGL/OGC material. The sooner they churn out the SRD material the sooner supporting publishers can use the ruleset to increase said material requiring the books to be purchased and the cycle to continue. With the stagnation and lack of turn around of the SRD material lately we aren't getting the full feel for the OGL licensing.
Once the material is out it's useless for people who don't build their own worlds and adventure but rely on 3rd parties to do so. For WOTC to succeed in their mission they need to move CORE material that is new out into SRD. Perfect example is Dieties and Demigods rulesets. I know they still wnat to make a buck on it but those rules can be made universal and useable and more companies can start including those rulesets in their products.
There needs to be a set timeline where WOTC will say "We will sell this book for X amount of time and then move it to SRD status".
Once the material is out it's useless for people who don't build their own worlds and adventure but rely on 3rd parties to do so. For WOTC to succeed in their mission they need to move CORE material that is new out into SRD. Perfect example is Dieties and Demigods rulesets. I know they still wnat to make a buck on it but those rules can be made universal and useable and more companies can start including those rulesets in their products.
There needs to be a set timeline where WOTC will say "We will sell this book for X amount of time and then move it to SRD status".
Darkness
Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
d20 is somewhat safer than creating a new system, I think. *shrug* Of course, it depends on the specific game whether the advantages of d20 outweigh the disadvantages. Still, for many "small" games, they probably do...The Onion Knight said:
And the old games still sell - just as d20 -, don't they? Also, I think that - if a company still also publishes their game with its original game system - more people who get into the game only because of d20 will eventually switch to the original game, than the other way around.
Heh. Still, I probably won't touch d20 Deadlands - for me, GURPS Deadlands is the way to go!
All in all, they are currently assimiliating parts of the market rather than destroying it... So what could they do that does, indeed, "end the RPG industry?"
(Note: I'm not exactly WotC's biggest fan - but I also fail to see how they could end the market.
)
Bass Puppet
First Post
W.O.T.C. Poll.....
I gave the Wizard's a 6. The reason being is because I like the way Wizards was heading, but seemed to loose a little steam over the last year and a half. I understand that the gaming industry is cut throat, but could we focus a little.
AND with E-tools coming out, I had to lower my score by 1 point.
If you asked me this a 1 1/2 ago, I would have said a 9.
I gave the Wizard's a 6. The reason being is because I like the way Wizards was heading, but seemed to loose a little steam over the last year and a half. I understand that the gaming industry is cut throat, but could we focus a little.
AND with E-tools coming out, I had to lower my score by 1 point.
If you asked me this a 1 1/2 ago, I would have said a 9.
trancejeremy
Adventurer
I gave them a 6, also.
WOTC and 3e/d20 started out great (I would have given them a 10 2 year ago or so), but went down hill from there.
Some of their products are really really nice, but a large number (particularly the modules, and some of the splatbooks) are awful.
They got rid of several people/authors at WOTC that I liked. Or at least liked their stuff.
Though friendlier than TSR, their policies have gotten less friendly of late (the new conversion policy, the fan site policy disappearing from their web site, etc)
They permitted the Hackmaster people to blaspheme various Mystara/Known World modules.
WOTC and 3e/d20 started out great (I would have given them a 10 2 year ago or so), but went down hill from there.
Some of their products are really really nice, but a large number (particularly the modules, and some of the splatbooks) are awful.
They got rid of several people/authors at WOTC that I liked. Or at least liked their stuff.
Though friendlier than TSR, their policies have gotten less friendly of late (the new conversion policy, the fan site policy disappearing from their web site, etc)
They permitted the Hackmaster people to blaspheme various Mystara/Known World modules.
trancejeremy
Adventurer
Aaron L said:
Chaosium doesn't even do that with their Elric themed stuff, despite having recently published a d20 rulebook for it and a new BRP rulebook. Their releases will apparently only be statted for one system.
Why, I dunno. Most of the stats are even the same...
Alcamtar
Explorer
This is a whole bunch of questions rolled into one:
Is WOTC a successful and well-run business?
9 ... They make money hand over fist.
9 ... Customers seem pretty happy in general
6 ... Internal corruption
5 ... Selling out to Hasbro
Have they been good for the industry?
10 ... They've helped spark a revival of sorts
8 .... They're bringing in new blood
4 .... They've reduced variety and caused a 'shakeout' of some old big names. Granted, some of those names probably deserved a shaking out.
2 .... Everything's getting converted to d20
Have they produced a quality game?
8 ... Production values and bang-for-buck
5 ... The mechanics are sound if uninspired
3 ... Introduced a new level of powergaming, which is fun but since it is *so* popular makes it harder to find players who want to do something else.
1... I'd prefer something else
Do I like what they are doing in general?
1 ... They've taken the RPG industry in a direction that I'd rather not follow. It doesn't matter how good their production values are, how popular the game is, or how much money they make if it doesn't interest me.
Overall I voted 5. Hopefully the d20 hype will wear off in another year or three and balance will return to the force. (I realize that my response might not average out to an exact '5' but who says they're weighted evenly?)
Is WOTC a successful and well-run business?
9 ... They make money hand over fist.
9 ... Customers seem pretty happy in general
6 ... Internal corruption
5 ... Selling out to Hasbro
Have they been good for the industry?
10 ... They've helped spark a revival of sorts
8 .... They're bringing in new blood
4 .... They've reduced variety and caused a 'shakeout' of some old big names. Granted, some of those names probably deserved a shaking out.
2 .... Everything's getting converted to d20
Have they produced a quality game?
8 ... Production values and bang-for-buck
5 ... The mechanics are sound if uninspired
3 ... Introduced a new level of powergaming, which is fun but since it is *so* popular makes it harder to find players who want to do something else.
1... I'd prefer something else
Do I like what they are doing in general?
1 ... They've taken the RPG industry in a direction that I'd rather not follow. It doesn't matter how good their production values are, how popular the game is, or how much money they make if it doesn't interest me.
Overall I voted 5. Hopefully the d20 hype will wear off in another year or three and balance will return to the force. (I realize that my response might not average out to an exact '5' but who says they're weighted evenly?)
stormdragon
First Post
Overall Score
Well looking at the company as a whole I would say a score of 8. This may come as a shock to some because I have very strong Opinions about some aspects of the company. Here is a break down.
The Good:
Excellent Rules system
Products that have depth, and are useful
A Willingness to let the fans express there creativity via websites, and such
The entire Open Gaming concept
Making The Star Wars RPG a game you actually want to play. (It is now huge in my state.)
Availability of product
Magic The Gathering Online. Great Idea should do well.
The bad:
Poor Quality of some products, Also I, as well as many of those I know have experianced books that have had loose bindings, paper quality is cheap, and God help you if you ever order from the Wizards store. Out of Ten orders one came pack correctly and with what I ordered.
Price of some product ridiculous considering content and Quality Best Example Lords of Darkness. For 30.00 it had better be a Hardcover, Another example The Star Wars Alien Anthology, Should have had more content, and had been a Hardcover
Fans being treated less than respectful by WOTC employees at conventions, and on message boards. (This is from my own experiance and hearing stories of many folks who have attended the past Three Gen-Con's, Dragon Con's, and have had dealing with WOTC employees via Email.)
Is D&D and SW RPG better since Wizards? Yes. Do they have issues that need to be solved? Hell Yes.
Well looking at the company as a whole I would say a score of 8. This may come as a shock to some because I have very strong Opinions about some aspects of the company. Here is a break down.
The Good:
Excellent Rules system
Products that have depth, and are useful
A Willingness to let the fans express there creativity via websites, and such
The entire Open Gaming concept
Making The Star Wars RPG a game you actually want to play. (It is now huge in my state.)
Availability of product
Magic The Gathering Online. Great Idea should do well.
The bad:
Poor Quality of some products, Also I, as well as many of those I know have experianced books that have had loose bindings, paper quality is cheap, and God help you if you ever order from the Wizards store. Out of Ten orders one came pack correctly and with what I ordered.
Price of some product ridiculous considering content and Quality Best Example Lords of Darkness. For 30.00 it had better be a Hardcover, Another example The Star Wars Alien Anthology, Should have had more content, and had been a Hardcover
Fans being treated less than respectful by WOTC employees at conventions, and on message boards. (This is from my own experiance and hearing stories of many folks who have attended the past Three Gen-Con's, Dragon Con's, and have had dealing with WOTC employees via Email.)
Is D&D and SW RPG better since Wizards? Yes. Do they have issues that need to be solved? Hell Yes.
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trancejeremy, will you please drop this? You bring it up time and time again and it's getting tiresome. You obviously have a bone to pick regarding Mystara, and have chosen Kenzer as a scapegoat - unfairly, I might add. You first accused them of "misusing the rights" to Mystara, when they don't even have them. They have rights to all of D&D and AD&D material, but only for Hackmaster purposes - not Mystara in particular. I'm sorry too that Mystara's gone for now, but that was probably due to gamers not buying enough Mystara material, or TSR's internal decisions - probably both.
Kenzer aren't even specifically parodying or paying tribute to the Known World with these modules. B1: In Search of the Unknown and B2: Keep on the Borderlands don't even truly belong to Mystara, except from a revisionist's perspective, where they were retrospectively and awkwardly plonked down in Karameikos. Neither module makes any reference to the Known World. Plus, Greyhawk is "getting blasphemed" just as much as Mystara with upcoming classics from that world.
The original modules are overwhelmingly familiar to anyone who played D&D back then, not just Mystara fans. They're classic D&D modules that (in the words of a WotC staffmember defending Return to the Keep on the Borderlands being placed on Greyhawk) belong to all worlds and none, and are remembered as such.
Additionally, you completely miss the good things about their existence. They provide new material that can be used to enhance the originals. Between the original Keep on the Borderlands, Return to the Keep on the Borderlands and Little Keep on the Borderlands you have the source material to put together an exceptional campaign with the best bits from each module - a campaign that should surprise even gamers who have gone through the originals.
The modules are much more tribute than "blasphemy". If you read them you'd understand, but you probably won't, and you don't. Never mind.
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