D&D 4E How would you re-envision Darksun with 4e?

[evildmguy]

Najo: Thanks! I didn't remember most of that, so it helped.

So, the iron mine means that all roads lead to Tyr?

Ah, that's right about Hamanu. I vaguely remember that now. Hmmm.

I thought I read somewhere that one of the cities was all about fighting. They loved fights and fighting and human sacrifice. Must be Draj? The problem I have with that is that people are a resource. If the sacrifice doesn't help them, why would they set up something like that?

Again, thanks!

edg

 

[Spatula]

The original real-world culture maps for the city-states were:

Tyr - generic, from what I recall; it was set up to be taken down early on I think
Balic - Roman Republic
Draj - Aztec
Gulg - African communal (psuedo-)tribal society
Nibenay - east asian (China and/or Japan)
Raam - don't recall
Urik - Babylonian

EDIT: regarding human sacrifice... people did it because they thought that it would help them. But in more practical terms, the sorcerer-kings needed living sacrifices to fuel thier transformations so obviously they would foster that sort of atmosphere.

 

[Klaus]

The original real-world culture maps for the city-states were:

Tyr - generic, from what I recall; it was set up to be taken down early on I think
Balic - Roman Republic
Draj - Aztec
Gulg - African communal (psuedo-)tribal society
Nibenay - east asian (China and/or Japan)
Raam - don't recall
Urik - Babylonian

EDIT: regarding human sacrifice... people did it because they thought that it would help them. But in more practical terms, the sorcerer-kings needed living sacrifices to fuel thier transformations so obviously they would foster that sort of atmosphere.

I'd avoid any overt Earth-analogies, making the setting more alien.

I'd also include illustrations of Athasian versions of common animals. An athasian cat might be a lizard, whereas an athasian dog might be an insect, and so on.

 

[Elphilm]

I'd avoid any overt Earth-analogies, making the setting more alien.

I agree. Obviously the city states can keep many of their unique features, but I would rather fashion each city state into an amalgam of various real world cultures rather than a direct analogy of some specific culture. A sufficiently imaginative person could even envision truly unique and alien features for each city state.

I love the alien aspects of Dark Sun, and I would amp up both the Sword and Sorcery and science fiction features of the setting, culling inspiration from the fantastic literature of the early 20th century when the two genres were not as distinct as they are today.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

The flip book adventure format was a great idea

I totally agree on how the mucked the setting up, bungled it totally with the 1st adventure...it's like, oh, Mad Max suddenly finding a neat, modern, functional city full of civilized folk...ruins it totally.

The Dune Trader supplement is very good, recommend that, good NPC/PC class for 2nd ed. Lot of books did indeed add too many powerful/weird items thanks ot the novel's silliness.

Problem with a lot of the adventurers though, was the NPCs' levels/stats made no sense at times, especially considering the +2 to ALL stats Dark Sun folk got. ie, you'd have an PC described as super tough and yhet, be a 5th levle fighter with 14 con...uh?

I'd like to see the +2 to all stats (well, effectivley thats' what it is) brought back, it made the palce seem incredibly ferocious, the people more than normal. You could keep the +2 stats to heroes/major NPCs though?

As for psionics, use the, oh forget name, feat in 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook, Hidden Talent??? that lets you have a wild talent.
-I dont' think EVERYONE should have psionics, most folk aren't supposed to from what
I've read it's like oh 1/4 folk have psi power, or such?
I think it should be a chosen thing Not everyone has psionics.
-Also, it should be enforced to be random what power you get, so you'd need a table for that, much better that way: folk are born with powers and need to make the best of what Fate has given them.

I'd keep avignons etc the heck out of the game until epic levels...

Heroic Levels should be about survival, gearing up, learning, escaping slavery,gladiatorial combat, and such. Starting to fight vs templars if so wish.

Note that templars should usually be run as priests and priests/burecrats in purpose. They are often administrators.
For 3.5 I've run lot of them as cleric/experts. Most are busy running the cities, working on plots etc which require brains/skills, not combat ability. They are priests of their "god", and their deovtion to him, as opposed to pragmatic greed etc, defines their cleric level.
-Exmaples: a fantatical follower of say, Hammanu, who's known for his warfare etc would be pure cleric say lvl 10, or cleric 8/fighter2, but a more merchant-like "Line my pockets!" type of Tyrian cleric, would be a cleric4/expert6.

Some templars are of course, combative, being champions (fighter/cleric perhaps), offciers in armies (cleric/warlord, 4th ed), or fanatical zealots (pure cleric).

I can see why some folk would like templars to be warlocks, however that wouldn't fit as warlocks are arcane in style/nature. it MAY fit in with Draegoth the undead sorceror king?

Way I've always run it, totally IGNORING the icky books/cannon/official history, is that the Sorceror kIngs *are* living demi-gods. Folk do worship them, they can give clerical power. For whatever reason though, there are no "true gods" just the Sorceror-kings, by virtue of folks worship, which includes fear! they can use the fear of their huddled populations, they can grant spells.
The gladiatorial fights help give them power, the crowds' emotions and the deaths.


By the way, I'd like to try running an online Dark Sun game when the toolbox etc is out

 

[megamania]

Original box set

Give more about the elementals / para-elementals

More about the islands and lands north and south.

NO paladins

GIVE US TOHR-KREEN The 3e Thri-kreen are mantis warrior wannabes

 

[Raduin711]

Hey guy's,

how does road to urik compare to freedom? Also, if I have the revised box set, do I need to purchase the Will and the Way supplement? Apoart from kits, I think everything it has is contained in the revised set (in the way of the psioncist booklet)

Road to Urik was mostly designed to utilize BATTLESYSTEM mass combat rules, which I know nothing about. When I ran it I tried to give a zoomed-in perspective on the combat, focusing on the adventurers. There wasn't very much to the adventure. I would think the psionics handbook would be necessary to running 2e DS. I am not sure about the Will and the Way; I never owned it. I think it may have introduced ideas like psionic ac, but I am not certain.

 

[Raduin711]

I'm just putting down some thoughts about how the story could be advanced in the setting.

Raam: I've never been satisfied with Ablach-Re's death. It seemed pretty unlikely in the story, the way that somehow she was bested by a wizard half her level. Perhaps she faked it, because she foresaw the return of Rajaat and has gone into hiding... But I think I have a better idea. Dregoth is supposed to be the new, big evil force in the tablelands, and there is no SK that he would despise more than Ablach-Re. So if he could find a way to revive her from the dead and make her his undead slave... mwahaha. This outcome seems to be suggested in the boxed set, describing strange cloaked figures in Raam; templars of Dregoth, perhaps? And Ablach-Re could come back with more power than ever. After all, the fact that she returned from the dead would have to mean that her god was real, right?

A new SK: I wonder what would happen if two SK's had a child. With only one female SK left, Lalali-Puy, the time for this would have to be soon. But why? Well, perhaps the SK's fear a world where the Sorcerer-Kings are not in control. Freedom of the people means they have more power, which means that they may not be long for the throne. So perhaps the Oba and one other SK could conceive a child to fill in the vacuum left by one of the missing SK's. My pick would be Nibenay. For one, it's clear he's a horndog ;], and still capable of fathering children. For two, the fighting between their two cities could come to a diplomatic end. Three, this conflict may be the result of some kind of intense love-hate relationship. Four, he could perhaps take advantage of being the fledgeling SK's father and use it to influence him for his own ends.

Orbs of Kalid-Ma: This is clearly an indication that at some point, Kalid-Ma will return, and perhaps rebuild Kalidnay. Perhaps he even brings some of Ravenloft with him.

But perhaps we underestimate the lost SK's. After all, in the closing paragraph in the 30 years of adventure book, where a DM sent a letter to TSR asking what to do after his players had killed off the last of of the SK's, Tim Brown responded that the death of the dragon kings "jeopardized the entire uinverse, so [the PC's] had to find a resurrect every one of them and beg their forgiveness." Perhaps they will all return, because without them, the world will literally be destroyed.

 

[evildmguy]

Now that we all know more about 4E, and my group might do a Dark Sun campaign, I am looking at this again. I am also hoping the rumors of WotC doing Dark Sun are true.

In terms of story, I would personally go back to the main boxed set, with no free cities. As I said, I think it would be possible to have a campaign with the Sorcerer Kings as rulers of the city, with the players either working for or against them. Perhaps even crossing over one way or another between those views.

In terms of mechanics, though, I think 4E offers much better potential. I think it would give some very good guidance in terms of when the characters are ready to take down the dragon, a SK or start their own city. Essentially, it would be at the Epic level and it would have to be something the group agrees to do. Otherwise, the story or adventures could stop at the high level Paragon tier, and not progress further.

It's too bad that psionics won't be readily available. I also don't know how to handle defiling but maybe once 4E is actually released, that might be apparent. Of course, the other problem comes from the other power sources. Can the martial power source be defiling? Again, perhaps once the rules are released, it will be obvious what to do.

Has anyone else thought about Dark Sun as more rules are being revealed? Any more ideas?

Thanks!

edg

 

[Dausuul]

I suspect that by the time WotC re-releases Dark Sun, the psionics rules will be out already.

The real problem with defiling magic is that it balances apples against oranges. From what I can see, one of WotC's key rules of game design--and it's a good one--is this: "Never balance a mechanical advantage against an RP disadvantage or vice versa."

Defiling magic violates this rule. The advantage to defiling is an increase in mechanical power, while the disadvantage is, essentially, "Everybody hates you." It's especially bad because the defiler's RP disadvantage is apt to get not just the defiler but the entire party into trouble.

I think that before WotC can release Dark Sun 4th Edition, they'll have to figure out a mechanical disadvantage and an RP advantage to playing a defiler.