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D&D 4E How would you re-envision Darksun with 4e?
- Thread starter Najo
- Start date
Ok, I just got to say this:
First off, the power behind Darksun is taking familiar fantasy (elves, dwarves, dragons) and twisting it. The designers originally made it without those things before launching and said it felt to alien and sci fi like. You can read about it in the 30 years of D&D book that WOTC released a while ago.
Having cutthroat pirate elves who live in the desert, dwarves with no hair who become undead banshees if they die failing their life's work, wild and cannibal halflings, slave raised dwarf/ human breed muls, the dark magic created half-giants, ritual hunter thrikreen. Tribes of Gith in place of Orcs. Psionics being the dominate study of the mind over matter (like the force), wizards are hunted and killed, the world is highly savage, hostile and political. Armies of slaves and templars fight in the name of centuries old Sorcerer Tyrants who seek the last remaining resources on a world bleed dry. Athas is a husk of a world. With very little vegetation, water or metal to speak of. Life is violent and short here, heroes are few and far between. But there is hope, and the heroes who seek it leave their mark on Athas history.
The setting had no typical staples. No fey, no were creatures, no vampires, no good elves living in trees, no dwarves living in mountains, no dragons in the skies or being ridden by knights. Dark sun had no paladins or magic using bards. The bards it did have were court enetrainers trained in espionage and murder, and used as the agents of nobles and templars. Dark sun had no gods or much of a planar landscape to explore.
Dark sun was about a war and magic ruined world, where mortals are pressed under the yoke of power mad tyrants. A world where magic was used to rise humans to the pinnacle of power and then systematically wipe out the magic weilding races one by one. Athas is where the Cleansing War occured. When the twelve Champions of Rajaat carried out genocide against the non-human races, and wiped out the water and forests in the process. They killed each race, and didn't stop until they found out Rajaat was going to betray them and sparring the last remaining races alive. They performed dark rituals on one of their own (Borys) and turned him into the one and only "dragon" in the setting. They then defeated and imprisioned Rajaat and set the dragon to gurad the prison. The dragon went insane and now terroizes athas from time to time, demands tributes of wealth, slaves and food be given to it yearly and it leaves behind stories and legend on the lips of the few survivors in its wake. Most people do not believe in the dragon. No one realizes the truth in its creation or what it gaurds.
The thing about dark sun's sorcerers and their attempts to transform into dragons. As said earlier, it is a one way transformation. Only possible through mastery of dark magic and psionics. It involves rituals done over centuries, and it slowly transforms your human form and leaves you vulvnerable while doing it. Sorcerer Kings have to form entire priesthoods and armies around themselves, spend hundreds of years preparing for the rituals and then keep an eye on one another while their at it. Through the highest level of psionic, arcane and the power of their worshipers, they can alter their genetics with black magic and become "dragons". The cost is the last threads of humanity and their souls, the reward, the most powerful of black magic. If done wrong, they will go insane like the first dragon did.
This dragon is entirely not the typical shape shifting dragon of D&D or any other fantasy. If anything they are dragon in name only. If you look at the Brom picture you can see how they feel familiar but very different. That is the heart of the Dark Sun setting.
Now, you can see why Dark Sun tends to be voted as one of the most in demand settings to return. Why it is so different from typical D&D. Why it is all kinds of awesome
First off, the power behind Darksun is taking familiar fantasy (elves, dwarves, dragons) and twisting it. The designers originally made it without those things before launching and said it felt to alien and sci fi like. You can read about it in the 30 years of D&D book that WOTC released a while ago.
Having cutthroat pirate elves who live in the desert, dwarves with no hair who become undead banshees if they die failing their life's work, wild and cannibal halflings, slave raised dwarf/ human breed muls, the dark magic created half-giants, ritual hunter thrikreen. Tribes of Gith in place of Orcs. Psionics being the dominate study of the mind over matter (like the force), wizards are hunted and killed, the world is highly savage, hostile and political. Armies of slaves and templars fight in the name of centuries old Sorcerer Tyrants who seek the last remaining resources on a world bleed dry. Athas is a husk of a world. With very little vegetation, water or metal to speak of. Life is violent and short here, heroes are few and far between. But there is hope, and the heroes who seek it leave their mark on Athas history.
The setting had no typical staples. No fey, no were creatures, no vampires, no good elves living in trees, no dwarves living in mountains, no dragons in the skies or being ridden by knights. Dark sun had no paladins or magic using bards. The bards it did have were court enetrainers trained in espionage and murder, and used as the agents of nobles and templars. Dark sun had no gods or much of a planar landscape to explore.
Dark sun was about a war and magic ruined world, where mortals are pressed under the yoke of power mad tyrants. A world where magic was used to rise humans to the pinnacle of power and then systematically wipe out the magic weilding races one by one. Athas is where the Cleansing War occured. When the twelve Champions of Rajaat carried out genocide against the non-human races, and wiped out the water and forests in the process. They killed each race, and didn't stop until they found out Rajaat was going to betray them and sparring the last remaining races alive. They performed dark rituals on one of their own (Borys) and turned him into the one and only "dragon" in the setting. They then defeated and imprisioned Rajaat and set the dragon to gurad the prison. The dragon went insane and now terroizes athas from time to time, demands tributes of wealth, slaves and food be given to it yearly and it leaves behind stories and legend on the lips of the few survivors in its wake. Most people do not believe in the dragon. No one realizes the truth in its creation or what it gaurds.
The thing about dark sun's sorcerers and their attempts to transform into dragons. As said earlier, it is a one way transformation. Only possible through mastery of dark magic and psionics. It involves rituals done over centuries, and it slowly transforms your human form and leaves you vulvnerable while doing it. Sorcerer Kings have to form entire priesthoods and armies around themselves, spend hundreds of years preparing for the rituals and then keep an eye on one another while their at it. Through the highest level of psionic, arcane and the power of their worshipers, they can alter their genetics with black magic and become "dragons". The cost is the last threads of humanity and their souls, the reward, the most powerful of black magic. If done wrong, they will go insane like the first dragon did.
This dragon is entirely not the typical shape shifting dragon of D&D or any other fantasy. If anything they are dragon in name only. If you look at the Brom picture you can see how they feel familiar but very different. That is the heart of the Dark Sun setting.
Now, you can see why Dark Sun tends to be voted as one of the most in demand settings to return. Why it is so different from typical D&D. Why it is all kinds of awesome
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Raduin711
Hero
Spatula said:
It's been a long time since I cracked open a 2nd edition phb, and I no longer have one to reference, but I do not recall 2nd edition druid's shapechanging abilities to be particularly impressive or noteworthy... I could be remembering wrong. I remember 2nd edition druids as being a TN-only cleric variant with different spheres and an annoying level cap that kept me from ever playing them. I do remember opening the 3rd edition PHB and being particularly impressed by their wild shape ability.
@Najo: that was a fantastic post. I want you to run a darksun pbp. Now.
One thing; was Borys as a Dragon ever statted out? And could he grant spells like the other Sorceror-Kings?
@Raduin:Yep, Adnd2e druids could shapeshift into animal forms. They did have that annoying level cap but I doubt anyone ever enforced it...including the designers themselves in their own games. *rolls eyes* Didin't you ever play the baldurs gate/Icewind dale computer games?
I want you to run a darksun pbp. Now. One thing; was Borys as a Dragon ever statted out? And could he grant spells like the other Sorceror-Kings?
@Raduin:Yep, Adnd2e druids could shapeshift into animal forms. They did have that annoying level cap but I doubt anyone ever enforced it...including the designers themselves in their own games. *rolls eyes* Didin't you ever play the baldurs gate/Icewind dale computer games?
Jraynack
Explorer
Klaus said:
Hear, Hear!
I own every dungeon, dragon, and even polyhydron article dedicated to Dark Sun as well as all other Dark Sun products. I also participated in the earliest Dark Sun mail groups (before forums) under Qred and had the old Red Obelisk website.
When Dark Sun ceased, I was shattered, for I thought it is the best setting out there (well, maybe not perhaps more than my upcoming Feudal Lords Campaign Setting; but I feel many Dark Sun elements inspired that setting). I also planned to participate in the retooling of the new look for Dark Sun with 3.0, but did not like the direction Athas.org took the setting.
So, I agree - bring it back to the original box set standard - and evolve from there.
Raduin711
Hero
Enforcer said:
I kind of liked it. It wasn't as good as Weis/Hickman or Salvatore fiction, but it was an interesting read.
The period after the 2nd boxed set was coined the Age of Heroes, because the Prism Pentad changed everything and showed that heroes could change the world. In the first boxed set, nothing could stand up to the sorcerer-kings.
After thinking about it, it was inevitable. You can't put heroes in that kind of situation and not expect them to bust free of their shackles. Even if you play from the first boxed set, sooner or later the players are going to take on a sorcerer-king. And unless you really hate your players, chances are, they are going to win. I think the only problem is making sure that their are more pins for the players to knock down again in the new edition.
Son_of_Thunder
Explorer
4E - How would you re-envision Darksun with 4e?
I wouldn't. I'd create an entirely new setting (new name and everything). Plunder the cool things from Dark Sun. And not worry if old fans of Dark Sun were mad or not.
I wouldn't. I'd create an entirely new setting (new name and everything). Plunder the cool things from Dark Sun. And not worry if old fans of Dark Sun were mad or not.
