How would you react to the 'ole bait and switch?
- Thread starter Caliber
- Start date
Arnwyn
First Post
Shut yo' mouth! The job system is still the best system out there.Nightfall said:
Back from the hijack: I voted "indifferent", much for the same reason as others - execution is really key here. As well, the frequency is also important. Once? Could be fine. More than once in a many year period? Not so good, IMO.
Altalazar
First Post
This is one of those "know your players" kind of issues - some players will like it, some won't - you need to judge your group.
I also agree that it often works best if you have some lead time, allowing some character development in-game with the "unchanged/normal" world.
My Ravenloft campaign started off with one adventure in the normal world, though they quickly got into it. The only problem I had was with the last adventure, which was just way too long - it was a published one, and I hadn't realized just how much it dragged.
It was also rather low magic and dangerous - the modules were nasty - though mostly good. They had very few magic items and the modules had lots of ways to lose them built-in. They ended up losing almost all of them and even losing the wizard's spellbook. That was tough for them to take. But in many ways it was one of the more memorable campaigns with some of the most interesting character development.
I think this is one of those things that you never quite know how it will work out, but you can know if your players are open to such things.
I also agree that it often works best if you have some lead time, allowing some character development in-game with the "unchanged/normal" world.
My Ravenloft campaign started off with one adventure in the normal world, though they quickly got into it. The only problem I had was with the last adventure, which was just way too long - it was a published one, and I hadn't realized just how much it dragged.
It was also rather low magic and dangerous - the modules were nasty - though mostly good. They had very few magic items and the modules had lots of ways to lose them built-in. They ended up losing almost all of them and even losing the wizard's spellbook. That was tough for them to take. But in many ways it was one of the more memorable campaigns with some of the most interesting character development.
I think this is one of those things that you never quite know how it will work out, but you can know if your players are open to such things.
Inconsequenti-AL
Breaks Games
I've done this to a gaming before. Switched from DnD (2nd Ed) to Hell on Earth (post apocalyptic horror rpg), with them plugged into a VR machine... Figured it would be a novel way to change from 1 system/campaign to another.
It did not work well at all:
The Hell on Earth game itself went pretty good and we enjoyed it.
What really annoyed them was dropping a campaign and removing the option to ever go back to the old characters. I hadn't really considered that before doing it.
My advice. Stop this one and start something new and completely separate.
It did not work well at all:
The Hell on Earth game itself went pretty good and we enjoyed it.
What really annoyed them was dropping a campaign and removing the option to ever go back to the old characters. I hadn't really considered that before doing it.
My advice. Stop this one and start something new and completely separate.
Caliber said:
I picked indifferent, the idea doesn't bother me, but the execution is key.
I ran a game one time that started out in the Birthright setting, though the PCs weren't kings, I was just using the setting for adventuring. My plan was to gradually introduce clues, like roaming bands of orcs (there are no orcs native to the setting), sightings of falling stars, divinations indicating something bad was coming, news of strange wars in far-off places, culminating in full-scale invasion from the dragon empire of Dragonstar. I think it would have worked well going gradually like that, there has to be build-up. Unfortunately, we tried to run this game last summer, when schedules are screwed up and nobody can make the game regularly enough to keep it going. Bah. Someday.
But a spontaneous bait-and-switch would probably bother me, like, "here, your Greyhawk characters were ambushed by a ravening pack of undead, we're using V:tM rules from now on."
Oh, who am I kidding, that would be fun too. But I can see where it would bother people.
Wombat
First Post
Back in the early 80s I did something like this.
Call of Cthuhlu had just come out and I wanted to run it (I was running RuneQuest at the time, so the system-switch would be minimal), but I was having a hard time trying to convince my players.
So I tried bait-n-switch...
I told them we were going to play a G-Men versus The Mob game, but that I hadn't decided which group I wanted them to play. They chose to be the G-Men. We used the BRP rules, modified as in early edition of CoC, and off we went.
Session 1 -- standard G-Men action
Session 2 -- Found a mob hangout, but there was something odd about the place
Session 3 -- Found a strange mobster, shot him with a Tommy, but he kept coming until the second G-Man openned up. Investigated -- the guy was just ... wrong. San checks.
Session 4 -- Heard weird chanting at a mob spot, saw several low-lifes, and a strange Egyptian fellow was leaving, obviously having met with the Pseudo-Capone of my game. Battle ensues, but the G-Men find strange books and powders on the site ...
... "Umm, Wombat, this isn't what we signed up for. Y'gotta stop this -- you're creeping us out!"
Thus ended my first attempt at CoC and my only attempt at a bait-n-switch.
I'm sure such a game could be handled well, but few players will stand for it unless you are really, really careful.
Call of Cthuhlu had just come out and I wanted to run it (I was running RuneQuest at the time, so the system-switch would be minimal), but I was having a hard time trying to convince my players.
So I tried bait-n-switch...
I told them we were going to play a G-Men versus The Mob game, but that I hadn't decided which group I wanted them to play. They chose to be the G-Men. We used the BRP rules, modified as in early edition of CoC, and off we went.
Session 1 -- standard G-Men action
Session 2 -- Found a mob hangout, but there was something odd about the place
Session 3 -- Found a strange mobster, shot him with a Tommy, but he kept coming until the second G-Man openned up. Investigated -- the guy was just ... wrong. San checks.
Session 4 -- Heard weird chanting at a mob spot, saw several low-lifes, and a strange Egyptian fellow was leaving, obviously having met with the Pseudo-Capone of my game. Battle ensues, but the G-Men find strange books and powders on the site ...
... "Umm, Wombat, this isn't what we signed up for. Y'gotta stop this -- you're creeping us out!"
Thus ended my first attempt at CoC and my only attempt at a bait-n-switch.
I'm sure such a game could be handled well, but few players will stand for it unless you are really, really careful.
Hrm. Good points. It seems most of what everyone is saying is the execution is the key, and with it being such a difficult move to pull off effectively, its better left alone.
I agree with Lord Pendragon in that there are different degrees of switch. I think those degrees are different for everyone though. I wouldn't really mind going from regular DnD to DragonStar, but changing from d20 to V:tM rules would irk me to no end (and not just because I don't like V:tM rules ... switching the rule system in general would just annoy me endlessly)
Would feelings towards this kind of change be more positive if the DM was upfront in the beginning? "We're going to be playing a V:tM game, but you're starting as regular humans before being turned." Or would that completely ruin the suprise elements, and make you feel like you were wasting your time before the "real game" began?
I agree with Lord Pendragon in that there are different degrees of switch. I think those degrees are different for everyone though. I wouldn't really mind going from regular DnD to DragonStar, but changing from d20 to V:tM rules would irk me to no end (and not just because I don't like V:tM rules ... switching the rule system in general would just annoy me endlessly)
Would feelings towards this kind of change be more positive if the DM was upfront in the beginning? "We're going to be playing a V:tM game, but you're starting as regular humans before being turned." Or would that completely ruin the suprise elements, and make you feel like you were wasting your time before the "real game" began?
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