How would your write the characters from Archer: Fugitive from the Empire in your favorite edition (Youtube link provided)

[Greg K]

Someone posted Archer: Fugitive From the Empire on Youtube. The movie is a failed TV pilot from the early 80's and released as the movie "Archer and the Sorceress" in Europe. The DVD has only been released in PAL format which is used outside of the US.

I was wondering if anyone more knowledgeable than I would to write up the characters main characters: Toran, Estra, and Slant for various editions including Toran's Bow and Estra's necklace. If necessary, feel free to suggest/use classes (or for 4e powers) from Dragon Magazine or OSR products. For 4e, I am figuring the Ranger would work really well for Toran.

You can (and probably should) skip over the first 7 to 8 minutes and skip to where Toran first encounters Estra in the tomb of her mother (unless you want the background and to see the initial appearance of the snakemen). Then, again, you might want to skip 18:42 to 27:00 (the meeting of the barbarian clans and where Toran is framed for his father's murder) to avoid really bad overacting.

Warning: The video quality and sound are poor. Also, the aspect ratio is off (or the person did a poor matte job and cut off the edges).

 

[Tony Vargas]

Someone posted Archer: Fugitive From the Empire on Youtube. The movie is a failed TV pilot from the early 80's

Yep, I remember it. There were a lot of 'heart bows' popping up at D&D games for a bit after that. The 3.0 'burst' weapons always seemed inspired by it, to me, too.

I was wondering if anyone more knowledgeable than I would to write up the characters main characters: Toran, Estra, and Slant for various editions including Toran's Bow and Estra's necklace.

I'm running purely on having watched it once 35-odd years ago...

At the time, I remember thinking that, with the way the characters seemed to use magic, and the glowing crystals that seemed to be part of some magic items (the bow and the gauntlet the bad-guy had), it looked more like RuneQuest than D&D. RQ has the advantage that there's no character classes or complicated builds. You just give the characters the skills they should have (and RQ had a lotta skills). If they're /really/ good at magic, they could be RunePriests or Shamans. If they're really incredibly good at fighting, RuneLords. But that corresponds more to high-level than to class. The bow could have had a permanent power crystal you 'attune' that lets you store POW and expend some when you loose an arrow, causing extra fire damage to the target and the area adjacent to it. Perfectly RuneQuesty.
The necklace, not so much.

Of course, you could totally do it all faithfully in Fantasy Hero, but then you can do anything in Hero...

If necessary, feel free to suggest/use classes (or for 4e powers) from Dragon Magazine or OSR products. For 4e, I am figuring the Ranger would work really well for Toran.

Archer-Rangers are very effective, and if he did any tricks beyond blowing things up with the magic bow, the class might well have an appropriate exploit, too. I think there's a 4e magic bow that makes it's arrows blow up, but it's probably only a daily (yep, Flameburst Weapon).

 

[Greg K]

Archer-Rangers are very effective, and if he did any tricks beyond blowing things up with the magic bow, the class might well have an appropriate exploit, too. I think there's a 4e magic bow that makes it's arrows blow up, but it's probably only a daily (yep, Flameburst Weapon).

He didn't do anything with it besides blow things up which is why I was thinking Archer subclass from the same Leomund's Tiny Hut article that gave the Archer-Ranger.

As for the magic items, they seemed to me as pretty powerful magic items for AD&D- maybe, minor artifacts.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I was thinking Archer subclass from the same Leomund's Tiny Hut article that gave the Archer-Ranger.

I thought you were talking about the 4e Ranger, I guess I call the Archery build 'Archer-Ranger' in unconscious imitation of the old Dragon mag NPC class, didn't even realize I was doin' it. Even so, I don't actually remember the AD&D Archer-Ranger so well - in general the 'Unofficial NPC Classes' from the Dragon were on the broken side or just weird.

As for the magic items, they seemed to me as pretty powerful magic items for AD&D- maybe, minor artifacts.

AD&D magic items can be crazy powerfu. A necklace that summons animals and a bow that makes arrows blow up? NBD, really, in a game that has Horns of Valhalla, Helms of Brilliance, Wands of Fireball and the like. The 3e burst weapons, though, I'm having trouble remembering exactly how they worked (did they 'burst' only on a crit? yeah, I think that was it edit: SRD confirmed, and it's not in a radius), maybe not close enough that you wouldn't need something better. The 4e Flameburst weapon I just looked up does the actual burst (burst 1, a 7.5' diameter or 15x15 cube, depending on how you think of it), which was really pretty minor, just a little ongoing fire damage, and only 1/day, so, yeah, major upgrade required (artifact rules in 4e are pretty nifty, though, and the bow might've acted a little like one, 'choosing' him or something, no?).

 

[Greg K]

I thought you were talking about the 4e Ranger, I guess I call the Archery build 'Archer-Ranger' in unconscious imitation of the old Dragon mag NPC class, didn't even realize I was doin' it.

No worries. The confusion is just due to circumstances caused by putting all pre- 5e D&D into the same forum area.

Even so, I don't actually remember the AD&D Archer-Ranger so well - in general the 'Unofficial NPC Classes' from the Dragon were on the broken side or just weird.

I used to avoid the NPC classes. Then, I was reading some old posts by Gygax on another forum and, for Robin Hood type characters, he told someone to use either the Archer subclass or Bandit class from Dragon Magazine.

AD&D magic items can be crazy powerfu. A necklace that summons animals and a bow that makes arrows blow up? NBD, really.[/QUOTE
That is true

 

[Tony Vargas]

I used to avoid the NPC classes. Then, I was reading some old posts by Gygax on another forum and, for Robin Hood type characters, he told someone to use either the Archer subclass or Bandit class from Dragon Magazine.

I actually did play a Dragon-mag Bandit. It was a perfectly reasonable character, but it was so much better than an AD&D fighter or thief...

 

[Garthanos]

This is the kind of challenge I have been known to take up in detail but for characters I am invested in... AND know! this is out there in the I don't know those realm, LOL

With the huge popularity of "Game of Thrones" it made me wonder but I get the impression it has a "low magic feel" that is not quite D&D like

 

[Greg K]

This is the kind of challenge I have been known to take up in detail but for characters I am invested in... AND know! this is out there in the I don't know those realm, LOL

With the huge popularity of "Game of Thrones" it made me wonder but I get the impression it has a "low magic feel" that is not quite D&D like

[MENTION=82504]Garthanos[/MENTION], Did you get a chance to watch the Youtube link?. It is about two hours long. I had actually planned to tag you in my original post. 4e is the version that I am least knowledgeable and you did a wonderful job on the characters from Ladyhawke and Heavy Metal. I don't think Toran or Slant would be difficult. To the best of my knowledge, Toran would be a Ranger (archery) and Slant would be a Rogue (which build I am not certain). Estra? I do not know what she would be in 4e.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Did you get a chance to watch the Youtube link?

Watched it last night. I remembered it being bad, but, wow, was it /bad/, even by failed TV pilot standards, even by 80s fantasy movie standards. (BTW, speaking of 80s fantasy movies, what is it with birds? Toran is of the "Hawk Clan," we had Ladyhawk and Hawk the Slayer and Ator was the 'Fighting Eagle...' Birds of a feather, I guess... though Ladyhawk hardly deserves to be in such bad company.) The horrid video quality sure didn't help.

I don't think Toran or Slant would be difficult. To the best of my knowledge, Toran would be a Ranger (archery)

Sure. The status of Heart-bowmen, alluded to in the flick, though, makes me think it should have a Theme or PP or the bow itself be a minor artifact (it has a name, and can reject a would-be wielder fatally, so the artifact concordance system could work well) or at least use that system, since it's not actually unique, per se. (It'd also fit the way 13A handles magic items, as having a bit of personality and inflicting 'quirks' on the wielder.)

Anyway, I was worried about the 'burst' power of the bow being only 'encounter' in 4e, but, on re-viewing, though it efficiently blew up individual snakepeople (who would likely be minions), it only really evinced a burst twice, once vs the snakepeople climbing down the cliff face, and once going vs a knot of them before going into the wizard's cave - obviously separate encounters. So maybe OK.

and Slant would be a Rogue (which build I am not certain).

He seems CHA-based, so Artful Dodger. He likes knives so the 4e Rogue's dagger fetish would be fine. (I'd completely forgotten about him until he came on screen, the moment I saw the silly knife-on-his-hat he came back to me.)

Estra? I do not know what she would be in 4e.

I had someone walk into an Encounters game once with a Wizard|Druid Fey-Beast-Tamer - so a familiar, a companion animal, and fey-origin beast pet, plus summons. Or her necklace could just act like a half-dozen Figurines of Wondrous Power. She could even be a Companion-character NPC.

I get the impression it has a "low magic feel" that is not quite D&D like

The world does feel that way, but two of the characters have magic items and one uses some fairly peripheral magic, the glowy-gem magic items have dramatic on-screen power, as dramatic as cheesy early-80s TV-movie special effects can make them.

But, yeah, like I said initially, at the time it reminded me much more of RuneQuest than D&D. AD&D with it's distinctive 'Vancian' casters, obligatory clerical healing, and plenitude of magic items really fit vanishingly little fantasy fiction, especially movies from the same period, like this one.

 

[Greg K]

But, yeah, like I said initially, at the time it reminded me much more of RuneQuest than D&D. AD&D with it's distinctive 'Vancian' casters, obligatory clerical healing, and plenitude of magic items really fit vanishingly little fantasy fiction, especially movies from the same period, like this one.

I find it funny when people talk about obligatory clerical healing and manyl magic items. The 2e Complete Fighter and Thief Handbooks discussed campaigns that were fighter and thief only respectively. At least one of the 2e HR series books was a non-magic campaign. I also ran several successful campaigns without clerics and where characters had only one or two magic items through 9th-10th level.