How would your write the characters from Archer: Fugitive from the Empire in your favorite edition (Youtube link provided)

[Tony Vargas]

I find it funny when people talk about obligatory clerical healing and many magic items.

It's how the game was laid out (still is, a bit, though Bards & Druids stand in more readily for Clerics). You couldn't readily survive first level without a cleric to heal you (and turn undead - undead encounters in modules were clearly designed with turning assumed), a thief to be killed by the traps instead of anyone who mattered, and a fighter to do all the real work. You couldn't use the treasure types in the MM and tables in the DMG for long without handing out a lot of magic items. Sure, a lot of potions, scrolls and +1 longswords, but still...

The 2e Complete Fighter and Thief Handbooks discussed campaigns that were fighter and thief only respectively. At least one of the 2e HR series books was a non-magic campaign.

Discuss? Maybe. Actually run? Maybe not so much. ...

I also ran several successful campaigns without clerics and where characters had only one or two magic items through 9th-10th level.

I ran a 10-year campaign with very low magic-items like that, just one major one per PC and whatever lower-profile lesser ones they accumulated, but I used a lot of variants, too - and, it actually started out as a "we'll all play Thieves and steal stuff and start a guild" campaign, like you mention the complete books talking about (it started in '85, though). But, within 5 levels, via player turnover & character death, the only thief left was the elf fighter/magic-user/thief, and by the end of the campaign (c14th level), there was a Cleric, Druid (both actually 2e CPH Priests), Fighter/Druid & Wizard keeping him company.



Anyway, add to that Vancian casting and D&D felt nothing like fantasy fiction. RuneQuest, OTOH, featured more nuanced characters who could develop their skills in any direction, and less overt, more intuitive magic - and much less-common magic items, especially of the magic sword variety - the bronze-age focus turned it away from the fantasy mainstream, though. And a few years later, Fantasy Hero let you do just about anything you cared to point-build...

 

[Greg K]

Watched it last night. I remembered it being bad, but, wow, was it /bad/, even by failed TV pilot standards, even by 80s fantasy movie standards. (BTW, speaking of 80s fantasy movies, what is it with birds? Toran is of the "Hawk Clan," we had Ladyhawk and Hawk the Slayer and Ator was the 'Fighting Eagle...' Birds of a feather, I guess... though Ladyhawk hardly deserves to be in such bad company.) The horrid video quality sure didn't help.

I really enjoy Ladyhawke so I agree . As for Archer, once Slant comes in, I enjoy it to some degree unlike Hawk the Slayer, Ator, or even the modern D&D movies. . The problem is that he does not come in until about halfway through.

He seems CHA-based, so Artful Dodger. He likes knives so the 4e Rogue's dagger fetish would be fine. (I'd completely forgotten about him until he came on screen, the moment I saw the silly knife-on-his-hat he came back to me.)

He kinda, formed my ideal for the thief/rogue.

Or her necklace could just act like a half-dozen Figurines of Wondrous Power.

That is kind of how I handled it back during my AD&D days when I created a magic item for an NPC based of her

 

[Garthanos]

[MENTION=82504]Garthanos[/MENTION], Did you get a chance to watch the Youtube link?. It is about two hours long. I had actually planned to tag you in my original post. 4e is the version that I am least knowledgeable and you did a wonderful job on the characters from Ladyhawke and Heavy Metal. I don't think Toran or Slant would be difficult. To the best of my knowledge, Toran would be a Ranger (archery) and Slant would be a Rogue (which build I am not certain). Estra? I do not know what she would be in 4e.

I will bite the bullet

 

[Garthanos]

I find it funny when people talk about obligatory clerical healing and manyl magic items.

Gygax actually considered magic items a way to balance the fighting man, they were supposed to get more and better items. The wizard got an ever advancing batch of spells and became a one man army able to transform into huge dragons and similar things at high level and the fighting man got to become his henchmen.... ok not an intentional effect obviously, those items were supposed to be his cool spells.

(Actually he also thought the fighting man would make a castle but since those never went out adventuring in practice that was a rather poor balancing factor)

 

[Garthanos]

The Ladyhawke Characters worked surprisingly well.. and werent exactly high magic themselves.

My initial thoughts on the Heart bow is to have a Heart Bow Archer Theme - this can make the explosive bow effect part of that special relationship they have with it. I think that was suggested by Tony, but I find myself agreeing.

 

[Greg K]

Gygax actually considered magic items a way to balance the fighting man, they were supposed to get more and better items. The wizard got an ever advancing batch of spells and became a one man army able to transform into huge dragons and similar things at high level and the fighting man got to become his henchmen.... ok not an intentional effect obviously, those items were supposed to be his cool spells.A

Actually, from what I recall hearing, they didn't become their henchmen, used to bring their henchmen along with them.

Edit: And, according to people that played in Gygax's table, he never expected PCs to get to levels where they could cast 7th-9th level spells. Those spell levels were included for NPCs

 

[Garthanos]

Actually, from what I recall hearing, they didn't become their henchmen, used to bring their henchmen along with them.

Everyone arguably got henchmen as far as that goes they werent batmans robin (and there was more leave them outside the real dungeon going on in the group I did high level with). I played a 9th level fighter where the mages had plenty of spells and his magic items were very mundane it felt very like a henchmen watching the wizard show (this was in 1e and didnt have any of those later 2e enhancements).

I actually think if Gygaxes idea had been better mechanically enshrined it might have been not too bad if your high level fighter felt like he was the fated weilder of AN Excaliber or Stormbringer or THE Sword of Truth with some consistency... maybe that would have worked.

 

[Greg K]

I actually think if Gygaxes idea had been better mechanically enshrined it might have been not too bad if your high level fighter felt like he was the fated weilder of AN Excaliber or Stormbringer or THE Sword of Truth with some consistency... maybe that would have worked.

That would have been cool

 

[Garthanos]

Looking at themes there are a number of encounter powers with bursty effects and some powers that trigger multi-hit from a when you hit a single target ... but most are looking to be melee... close blast 3 for instance.

I was kind of hoping to pull a re-flavor on it but a custom theme could get good stuff anyway.

 

[Garthanos]

Another option is to put the explosive burst as a re-flavoring of an at-will power for instance since the character is ranger based there is the hunters rapid fire attack