Huh, I apparently have a +28 tumble

[Tellerve]

In real life no less, because Oriental Adventures says a kip-up (stand up as a free-action as opposed to a move-equivalent action) is a DC 35.

And here I didn't think I was a master gymnast. And granted I only recently learned how to do a kip-up in real life, but man are they not nearly that hard. I have house ruled in my game that they are a DC 20, and that jives with me in terms of say Ride's fast dismount and mount. I just wonder the rest of you all out there what do you think. Especially any of those that have mastered that intricate kip-up maneuver. Do you feel it is really that hard? Harder than taking 20 feet off a fall?

Tellerve

 

[kreynolds]

Grab the right feat and the DC is 0.

 

[aliensex]

DC's don't really model exactly what is possible in real life. Look at some of the one's in the ELH! They have standing on a horse while its moving at something like a DC 45 That would mean the little 15 year old circus performer is near 20th level expert horse rider

I think the DC's are set as a balancing factor, based more on the game mechanic outcome rather than what is capable in real life. Besides, can you do the kip-up while orcs are firing crossbows at you

 

[Tellerve]

no, but I think a monk with ranks in tumble should be able to do so decently easily. Especially since this is a very typical move of in movies with marital artists, or even not martial artist. I hate to admit it but I saw Scorpion King and the rock did one. And I wouldn't lump him in with jackie in terms of manuverability. I haven't had any gynmastic training, and just a bit of marital arts (and we didn't work on kipups). I agree it is a balancing factor, but IMO it is a bit outta wack. I had a feeling people would tell me it is for balancing issues. I just find it a bit annoying. It really only hurts the monk from doing it as the fighter in full plate wouldn't be able to do a dc 20 tumble check. *shrugs*

Btw, which feat are you talking about kreynolds? If it is prone attack, last I looked you had to attack someone successfully. So as long as you can get angry and attack the ground you can get up as a free action, or find someone your pissed at nearby in reach, but otherwise you have to situp and stand up the old MEA way.

Tellerve

 

[drnuncheon]

DC's don't really model exactly what is possible in real life. Look at some of the one's in the ELH! They have standing on a horse while its moving at something like a DC 45 That would mean the little 15 year old circus performer is near 20th level expert horse rider

Yeah, but can she do it and fight? (Or, as you put it, when orcs are firing crossbows at her?) I think that's what the DC is really supposed to be for. (And yeah, it's still ridiculously high, espeically when you look at other stuff at the same DC.)

Oh, and Tellerve: can you do it without provoking an AoO?

J

 

[Tellerve]

Oh, and Tellerve: can you do it without provoking an AoO?

J

Why yes, yes I can

I guess it is the way I view that maneuver and how I like my games to be run. Since none of you agreed that the DC seemed too high and should be change that only affirms I won't be getting it changed in the campaign I'm playing in. Oh well, the next one for sure .

I think also my point of me doing it was lost somewhere. I wasn't say I could do it in the middle of an orcish crossbow fight but that it isn't that difficult, by far isn't that difficult. So when me, an untrained non-adventurer can do it, I don't think adding orcish crossbowmen add THAT much to the DC for a trained, hardened, monk who is all about tumbling and maneuverability.

At this point I think the thread should probably die off, since, I made my jab at the d20 rules canon and failed apparently. I'll change my campaign and be happy I at least made you all think about some of the DCs in some of these books.

Tellerve

 

[HeavyG]

Another way to look at it :

Your standard kip-up that you learned how to do in martial arts classes in not the "free action to get up" super kip-up they are talking about in OA but rather a plain old "move-equivalent ordinary kip-up" that everyone and their dog can do in D&D. The standard "slowly get up from the ground" people do in real life is really a full-round action in D&D terms.

 

[MarauderX]

In real life no less, because Oriental Adventures says a kip-up (stand up as a free-action as opposed to a move-equivalent action) is a DC 35.

And here I didn't think I was a master gymnast. And granted I only recently learned how to do a kip-up in real life, but man are they not nearly that hard. I have house ruled in my game that they are a DC 20, and that jives with me in terms of say Ride's fast dismount and mount. I just wonder the rest of you all out there what do you think. Especially any of those that have mastered that intricate kip-up maneuver. Do you feel it is really that hard? Harder than taking 20 feet off a fall?

Tellerve

Me too! I don't think it's that hard either, and two of my friends learned it faster than I did (they are quite lanky and flexible) but eventually all of us in the same martial arts class could do it. It took a good afternoon before I was able to get my feet under me, and after a week of intermittent practice I could do it consistently without losing my balance.

Perhaps you could treat the Tumble like the Perform skill, where each point gives you a new 'move' that you can do at, say, +10 to your check. It's kind of a lame attempt to house rule it, but better than nothing and takes into account training.

 

[Farganger]

I hate to admit it but I saw Scorpion King and the rock did one.

That didn't have the feel of a "free action" to me.

The basic gymnastic technique is pretty removed from an effective combat version, I would imagine.

 

[Kalshane]

I think the non-AoO-provoking free action is the key part here. My cousin can do kip-ups pretty well, but when he tried one during a multiple-opponents drill in martial arts class he got beat right back down.