HULK: Strength and Power

[delericho]

Is it really a good idea to teach kids that anger helps you overcome conflict?

IMO, the most interesting thing about the Hulk is actually the relationship between Banner and the Hulk - that Banner both knows and fears what the Hulk can do, and really doesn't want to let him out... and yet, there are situations that "the Other Guy" is better suited to deal with.

I'm not sure that the movies are the best place to explore that, though, since they're more likely to emphasise the pyrotechnic over the cerebral.

 

[Kramodlog]

/
Good point. However, there are a TON of reasons why kids behave as they do today and I can almost guarantee you that most of it has nothing to do with comics... I read comics for as long as I could read and I never once wanted to harm anyone. The only times I've ever been in fights were to defend myself when necessary. The worst thing comics ever did for me was broaden my imagination. I think that has served me well.

A personal anecdote does not counter what he said.
.

The difference between myself as a kid and the average kid today is that I had enough respect and, yes, Fear of my parents to NOT do what I knew was wrong. Most kids today have no fear of consequences at all. They do as they please with little or no regard to how their actions affect others.

... You should add a "get off my lawn".

 

[Cyclone_Joker]

HULK's strength has increased with anger for almost as long as he's been published. I get that and it's one of the things I've liked about him. He was one of my favorites as a kid because of his "hands on" nature. However, I don't care for any of his new, "ridiculous" powers.

He has no "new, ridiculous powers." Every ability I mentioned is over a decade old, most over two or three.

HULK is a physical strength being. I'm perfectly OK with him being Marvel Earth's strongest being. Growing up, I enjoyed his classic battles with guys like Namor, THOR and the THING. However, I really don't care for this list of new powers he has. Breathing under water, Punching "Time", it doesn't get more ridiculous than that.

First, he doesn't breath underwater, he just doesn't have to breath.

Second, you're joking about the Thor thing, right? You're calling anyone else ridiculous when Thor is in the picture? Thor can fly faster than light and destroy planets with his bare hands. He can fight guys with Power Cosmic, which can break stars and crap, and come out on top. And that's not counting all the Odinforce crap.

I can remember when the Abomination was physically stronger. It was interesting because HULK would only beat him when his anger increased his strength to match and then surpass Abomination's. However, it usually took a short while before that happened.

No you don't. The Abomination was only, and still is, stronger than a calm Hulk. The only thing that's changed about the Hulk in recent years is his self-control while enraged and his ability to become pissed faster.

I think the "Limitless" part is the most ridiculous. I like the idea of an Unknown limit but EVERY physical being has SOME limit.

No he doesn't.

He broke a reality warper's powers with his fists. He can punch time. He can grab lightning. This is old crap.

"Clap away dimensions" sounds about as ridiculous as Pre-Crisis Superman's "Hear a whisper a galaxy away". How do you write about someone so powerful? It gets boring real quick.

By putting him against stronger things? He fought the Suentry, the Void, Heralds, Iron Man, Thor, Magneto, and so on. The guy who's demiplane he clapped away was ludicrously powerful, nearly deific in his own dimension.

What makes even less sense is his battles with guys like THING or Namor. If both are just around Class 100 and the HULK has that, how could they ever fight have fought him?

...Dude? The Thing has taken punches from guys like Champion and the Gladiator. Namor can throw city blocks at the depth of the ocean and fly at crazy speeds.

...I'm beginning to think the problem isn't comic books. The problem is you. There were no halcyon days of the Hulk being "big strong guy." He's always, always, always been absurd, powerful as guys who play on the cosmic scale. This is not news.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

/
Good point. However, there are a TON of reasons why kids behave as they do today and I can almost guarantee you that most of it has nothing to do with comics... I read comics for as long as I could read and I never once wanted to harm anyone. The only times I've ever been in fights were to defend myself when necessary. The worst thing comics ever did for me was broaden my imagination. I think that has served me well.

First, anecdotes are not evidence.

That said, I do understand that there's a lot more than comic 'heroes' brutally beating their problems into submission at play here. The thought is: 'Why add another straw to that already overburdened camel's back?'.

The difference between myself as a kid and the average kid today is that I had enough respect and, yes, Fear of my parents to NOT do what I knew was wrong. Most kids today have no fear of consequences at all. They do as they please with little or no regard to how their actions affect others.

And here we're on the same page. It has an awful lot to do with parents and how much time they devote to their kids. Things have changed and parents just don't want to spend the time or have it to spend. If it's a question of working to make sure Johnny has food to eat, clothes to wear and a roof over his head or staying home and monitoring the content of everything he watches or reads, well, it's unfortunately a pretty damned easy decision to make - especially considering nobody will take your kids away simply because you let them watch Full Metal Jacket ... yet.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

IMO, the most interesting thing about the Hulk is actually the relationship between Banner and the Hulk - that Banner both knows and fears what the Hulk can do, and really doesn't want to let him out... and yet, there are situations that "the Other Guy" is better suited to deal with.

I'm not sure that the movies are the best place to explore that, though, since they're more likely to emphasise the pyrotechnic over the cerebral.

True, but what's the overall impression given? That this brute is a bad thing or that he's a hero? That he saves the day? That the thinking man isn't enough to stop him, that his conscience isn't enough to keep him at bay and yet that's a good thing? The message, if it's about this conflict, isn't that terribly strong. The Hulk wins because The Hulk is the superior being with the superior conflict resolution system.

 

[delericho]

True, but what's the overall impression given? That this brute is a bad thing or that he's a hero?

Both?

That he saves the day? That the thinking man isn't enough to stop him, that his conscience isn't enough to keep him at bay...

Yes, to both...

and yet that's a good thing?

Not necessarily.

The older, and more cynical, that I get, the more I find myself doubting anything that offers and easy answer. The world is just more complex, and certainly a hell of a lot messier than that - very often, you're better off with the benevolent tyrant than with the well-meaning incompetent running things. Violence may be a bad thing, but there are some problems where high-minded principle just won't prevail. And so forth.

Besides, superhero films are already replete with pretty sucky messages - in most of them, the normal person can't be a hero; you either have to inherit enormous wealth (Batman, Iron Man), be inherently superior (Superman), or be the recipient of some freak lucky accident (Spiderman, the Hulk) in order to have a chance. So, what's one more sucky message in all of that?

 

[Zombie_Babies]

One too many.