D&D (2024) Humanoids in the MM...

[Reynard]

I get that I started with 1e MM and BECMI. I found the 1e MM very inspirational, BECMI less so. So I would say I like the 1e lore amount pretty well, though that could very quite a bit. I will say I was less engage with long lore entries like for orcs (though I liked them for demons, devils, and dragons - so probably my monster bias more than anything)

That being said, all the information that goes into a monster entry for LevelUp or Twilight Fables (shout out to @Sacrosanct 's awesome monster book) is incredibly interesting and inspirational. However, I have found that while I like to read those type of monster books, they are not as useful at the table for me. So each has a different function for me.

It will never happen but my dream is each D&D book in a slip case with the 300 page "reading copy" AND a slim "rules summary" book for easy reference in play akin to complex board game rules: complete but very concise.

A lot of this is, of course, moot when we start talking about Beyond and VTTs. Many of my complaints melt away when I am running games on Fantasy grounds, for example: there is no page flipping to worry about for spells or feats or templates or whatever.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Yeah, I am only talking about what I think would be better/good.

Like many, I started with Metzner and those little snippets were just enough to get my imagination going. Nowadays, Shadowdark does something similar with its minimalist monster entries. I get why some folks want lore, but I find it unwieldy and constraining and not worth the words used that could be used for more interesting use cases.

I get that. I started with 1e MM and BECMI. I found the 1e MM very inspirational, BECMI less so. So I would say I like the 1e lore amount pretty well, though that could very quite a bit. I will say I was less engage with long lore entries like for orcs (though I liked them for demons, devils, and dragons - so probably my monster bias more than anything)

That being said, all the information that goes into a monster entry for LevelUp or Twilight Fables (shout out to @Sacrosanct 's awesome monster book) is incredibly interesting and inspirational. However, I have found that while I like to read those type of monster books, they are not as useful at the table for me. So each has a different function for me.

I think it really comes down to what you're design philosophy is. For Twilight Fables, it's a sourcebook based off of historical European folklore, so the lore part was really important. The whole point was to distinguish the original historical lore with how D&D had treated it over the decades. A pronunciation guide was also important!

For something like Bugbears&Borderlands, the goal is streamlined and quick play. Both are 5e-based products, but as you can see, designed completely different from a monster entry

Bugbears&Borderlands:

Twilight Fables

 

[dave2008]

I think it really comes down to what you're design philosophy is. For Twilight Fables, it's a sourcebook based off of historical European folklore, so the lore part was really important. The whole point was to distinguish the original historical lore with how D&D had treated it over the decades. A pronunciation guide was also important!

For something like Bugbears&Borderlands, the goal is streamlined and quick play. Both are 5e-based products, but as you can see, designed completely different from a monster entry

Very good points! I think ideally what I, and it seems @Reynard, would like to see is both books in one product line.

That makes me think, maybe you have a big book of monsters that is very streamlined and covers mostly everything (similar to Bugbears and Borderlands) and then setting specific monster books that are a lot more lore heavy, possibly with specialized stat blocks (similar to Twilight Fables).

 

[Reynard]

Very good points! I think ideally what I, and it seems @Reynard, would like to see is both books in one product line.

That makes me think, maybe you have a big book of monsters that is very streamlined and covers mostly everything (similar to Bugbears and Borderlands) and then setting specific monster books that are a lot more lore heavy, possibly with specialized stat blocks (similar to Twilight Fables).

These I would buy.

 

[SkidAce]

It seems simple enough to add a small table of options.

Let's say bandits
If the bandit is... Then...
A goblin they may use a bonus action to dash or disengage; darkvision
A dwarf they have +10 hp and do +1 additional damage in melee; adarkvision
A Elf they have +2 to hit and damage with a bow and can cast misty step once/long rest
A half giant they have double standard hit points and do an additional die of damage with attacks

Something like that: still concise but right there so it is actually useful, even if the GM has decided to make a mixed group of bandits (which they should).

I feel like they can't foresee every combination (pirate merfolk), so are hopeful that we will take the "pirate block", glance at merfolk, and add what we need for the encounter.

 

[Parmandur]

I feel like they can't foresee every combination (pirate merfolk), so are hopeful that we will take the "pirate block", glance at merfolk, and add what we need for the encounter.

Thing is, they already did solve for that in 2014 through a simple table, so hopefully a similar table is in play again.

 

[SkidAce]

Thing is, they already did solve for that in 2014 through a simple table, so hopefully a similar table is in play again.

Yes, the table is fantastic, I also hope they reproduce it, but I have my doubts.

 

[Parmandur]

Yes, the table is fantastic, I also hope they reproduce it, but I have my doubts.

Thing is, it would be even easier now since ASI was dropped from Species. And having a quick reminder of what extra abilities, like Flight or a Breath Weapon, to add to an NPC block would still matter.

 

[the Jester]

I feel like removing all these creatures from the Humanoid type leaves the Humanoid type as basically meaningless. It's basically "most pcs are Humanoids" now. That's... not much.

 

[dave2008]

I feel like removing all these creatures from the Humanoid type leaves the Humanoid type as basically meaningless. It's basically "most pcs are Humanoids" now. That's... not much.

We will have to see of course, but it does seem odd. It is ok for people to be monsters too IMO.